Devaluing Non-Residents

[BuzzH]

I think his complaint is that it is increasingly challenging to get a desirable tag for an affordable price as NR. He's not wrong, especially when history is used as the datum.

I may have missed where he said his lack of opportunity was related to harvest.

I also imagine you'd feel a lot different if you'd have invested years and dollars into something to have your opportunities cut dramatically by the legislature. I haven't (only hunted as resident in WY and MT), but it's not hard to see how things are becoming less desirable as a NR.

Well, pardon WY residents all to hell that you and rjthehunter can't have the tags you desire.

I have a solution, take a number and get in line.

I've been applying in at least 8 states a year for tags for 15-25 years that I desire, I don't complain because they're harder to draw or that I don't get my first choice every year. I just keep applying.

Lots of things have changed and my NR opportunities to draw tags in nearly all those states has become "dramatically cut" for all sorts of reasons.

Like I said, I wish there was ONE of those states where I could pick up second choice or leftover antlerless tags like NR's of Wyoming can do here. They don't exist.

You won't be getting any sympathy about things getting tougher for NR's here.

 

[Nicoli7153]

Most states keep DNR budgets safe from general state budgets due to the Pittman Robertson Act. Any diversion of conservation funds make you ineligible for millions in federal grant money.

Aren't total license sale numbers part of the formula for the distribution of PR funds to the states? If so (and I believe they are) won't the states have additional lost revenues from PR?

 

[DFS]

It’s going to be real interesting to see the draw stats in Wyoming. I won’t be surprised if more people don’t apply for the special draw this year than previous years or just as many. All this is going to show is how much states could charge. Nonresident demand is off the charts.

 

[BuzzH]

It’s going to be real interesting to see the draw stats in Wyoming. I won’t be surprised if more people don’t apply for the special draw this year than previous years or just as many. All this is going to show is how much states could charge. Nonresident demand is off the charts.

I think the smart move this year was to stay the course in the regular fee draw. Everyone is wanting to skip the line, draw more often, have better odds and $578 isn't going to do anything but entice them.

 

[The Hedgehog]

All I got was some damned lamp tool. The Jensen Toll S3339 Lamp Tool.

But just as appropriately, the USA Outfitters Case would have been what I cited.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-10th-circuit/1012812.html

That issue landed my an Arizona strip mule deer permit.

 

[VikingsGuy]

All I got was some damned lamp tool. The Jensen Toll S3339 Lamp Tool.

But just as appropriately, the USA Outfitters Case would have been what I cited.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-10th-circuit/1012812.html

As society seems reluctant to learn - it’s legal until it isn’t. One good case. One good set of appellate judges. Or one sentence in an omnibus spending bill in DC and the game can change. So best to make allies rather than enemies of the 340 million people who don’t live in WY, MT and ID.

 

[ccc23454]

It’s going to be real interesting to see the draw stats in Wyoming. I won’t be surprised if more people don’t apply for the special draw this year than previous years or just as many. All this is going to show is how much states could charge. Nonresident demand is off the charts.

My guess is this year you see slight decrese in special apps followed by next year a increase that offsets this years decrease based on over reaction to first year numbers. Probably take 4/5 years to stabilize data but zero chance $2k go unsold.

 

[brymoore]

I think his complaint is that it is increasingly challenging to get a desirable tag for an affordable price as NR. He's not wrong, especially when history is used as the datum.

Capitalism 101. High demand causes prices and competition for products to rise.

You want better draw odds and discount rates? Pray for another recession.

Idaho during the Great Recession was a ghost town. The amount of hunters was much lower, NRs were rarer and the state had to cut NR second tag prices by 50% to sell them. 14 year old memory but I don’t think the state sold all the NR leftover tags even with the discount.

 

[sclancy27]

Capitalism 101. High demand causes prices and competition for products to rise.

You want better draw odds and discount rates? Pray for another recession.

Idaho during the Great Recession was a ghost town. The amount of hunters was much lower, NRs were rarer and the state had to cut NR second tag prices by 50% to sell them. 14 year old memory but I don’t think the state sold all the NR leftover tags even with the discount.

Nothing is truer. People with a lot of extra money has seen demand skyrocket. Couple that with increased demand from publicizing hunting the west and here we are. I remember MT from about 2008-2012 or 2013, not a lot of folks running around. FWP had leftover NR elk and deer tags into hunting season then, they may have never sold them all out I would have to look back at the numbers.

 

[FairWeather]

I’m in favor of limiting NR hunting nuisance &/or non-managed species only. Coyotes, prairie dogs, nutria, etc. Things that, if removed, would actually improve the health of the habitat & populations for game animals. That said, I would favor those licenses costing no more than a resident license.
Along with this, I favor eliminating the tags that would have been allocated to NR. Not redistributing them to residents, just eliminate them.

“What about the reduced revenue?”. My thoughts are, with reduced take by hunters, and (hopefully) increased reduction of predators & reduced habitat destruction, the wildlife will have an easier time self regulating, thus allowing less involvement by agencies while still maintaining healthy populations.

 

[rjthehunter]

Hot Damn! So WY was used as an example by meateater, so I referenced it as well. Buzz took that shit personally (not going to lie, I figured he would). I am sorry for hurting your feelings again buzz. I hope you realize WY isn't the only state that limits NR hunters. The info was easily accessible so I used it in my examples.

I'm not sure why so inclined to put so many words in my mouth. I never said I couldn't get a tag. But if a guy wants to hunt a general tag in WY, it takes at least 4 points as of last year, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Well, pardon WY residents all to hell that you and rjthehunter can't have the tags you desire.

I have a solution, take a number and get in line.

I've been applying in at least 8 states a year for tags for 15-25 years that I desire, I don't complain because they're harder to draw or that I don't get my first choice every year. I just keep applying.

Lots of things have changed and my NR opportunities to draw tags in nearly all those states has become "dramatically cut" for all sorts of reasons.

Like I said, I wish there was ONE of those states where I could pick up second choice or leftover antlerless tags like NR's of Wyoming can do here. They don't exist.

You won't be getting any sympathy about things getting tougher for NR's here.

I see your point.

 

[Kiwi]

I think the smart move this year was to stay the course in the regular fee draw. Everyone is wanting to skip the line, draw more often, have better odds and $578 isn't going to do anything but entice them.

I sure hope you're right. I applied in the standard draw and hope to get back to WY this fall with a couple of tags.

As a non resident (alien) I'm extremely grateful to WY for the tags my son and I have had over 4 years of applying in WY - 4 bull, 3 deer, 2 antelope and 1 bear tag.

 

[FREAK]

Capitalism 101. High demand causes prices and competition for products to rise.

You want better draw odds and discount rates? Pray for another recession.

Idaho during the Great Recession was a ghost town. The amount of hunters was much lower, NRs were rarer and the state had to cut NR second tag prices by 50% to sell them. 14 year old memory but I don’t think the state sold all the NR leftover tags even with the discount.

I think this is the driver more than anything. Of coarse they're going to capitalize on a decreasing supply coupled with an increase in demand. @rjthehunter and @BuzzH , you haven't disappointed as usual. I can't wait to get back to Wyoming for a NR hunt. I do think we're asking a lot out of sportsman to become the one's that "save the species." I don't expect a doctor to figure out how to make defense missiles. I'm a hunter not a biologist. I look at the opportunities that have been lost in a generation. Makes me worry what will be left for my kids.

 

[BuzzH]

Hot Damn! So WY was used as an example by meateater, so I referenced it as well. Buzz took that shit personally (not going to lie, I figured he would). I am sorry for hurting your feelings again buzz. I hope you realize WY isn't the only state that limits NR hunters. The info was easily accessible so I used it in my examples.

I'm not sure why so inclined to put so many words in my mouth. I never said I couldn't get a tag. But if a guy wants to hunt a general tag in WY, it takes at least 4 points as of last year, and it's only going to get worse.

You're so wrong it's not funny...

My feelings will be soothed by a pocket full of tags, both R and NR.

 

[seeth07]

Whoever thought it was smart to use Wyoming for any sort of NR vs R argument was not well informed. They really should have used SD or Oregon or California or seriously any other state except CO (who is probably the only western state more generous than WY to NR?)

This last weekend I just went to pick up my wife's bull from WY two hunting seasons ago from the taxidermist. Best hunting experience of my life to date. Wyoming has been beyond kind to my wife and I. 8 Antelope tags we have been apart of and that elk. We both have more points than we need to use them on some hunts for elk and deer that I know we will have a blast on and look forward to using them over the next decade or so. There just simply isn't enough time to use them all up.

 

[ismith]

Which wild game animal makes the best empanadas?

 

[WildWill]

Which wild game animal makes the best empanadas?

Pandas duh it's in the name.

 

[seeth07]

Which wild game animal makes the best empanadas?

Argentina ducks. No debate. Or maybe it was just because I experienced real homemade empanadas made in a country where they are part of their religion it seems!

 

[Buffs35]

I say be careful what you wish for you just might get it.

Keep shafting NRs hunter at every turn and you just might find yourself choking alone while you try to swallow all those tags.

challenge accepted