Devaluing Non-Residents

[The Hedgehog]

I got in on the ground floor with WY Moose and Sheep points. After drawing moose and they bumped the price of preference points up, in addition to the wilderness law, I decided to just cut my losses a long time ago. No regrets, I just didn't want to stay the course for that, and the $3K price for a permit today is not something I could justify or wanted bad enough. Last thing I'll do is be a sniveling little bitch about it though. I was pumped to see this thread this year: https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/2023-wyoming-unit-5-sheep-tag.319256/

If you can't find a deer or elk hunt on the economical side, somewhere if it's important to you, "your reel dum" If you want a big antlered animal, with easy hunting and light hunter pressure... get in line and/or get out your wallet, or maybe both.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I'm banking on this one being worth waiting/paying for. I'm not bailing on this NR chance just yet. I'm the red circle last year.

 

[EYJONAS!]

I guess I'm a real idiot after jumping into 4 states this year with no pts whatsoever. Hopefully it pans out in 20 years. Which I'm good with.

 

[DFS]

I guess I'm a real idiot after jumping into 4 states this year with no pts whatsoever. Hopefully it pans out in 20 years. Which I'm good with.

You will probably be the guy that draws and rubs it in all of our faces

 

[EYJONAS!]

You will probably be the guy that draws and rubs it in all of our faces

Hey someone's got to.....

 

[YoungGun]

Good news- 212 days until September 1.

-No doe tags (in the meantime, if both residents and non-residents would buy them an leave them unfilled, that would be great and would help fund a few of the below)
-Limited rut hunts
-Payments to landowners to harbor wildlife through out the winter and in droughts to increase social tolerance as well as survival rates
-Wildlife fences and overpasses along migration corridors
-Predator management (someone make coyote pelts as sought after as shed antlers)
-Land restoration on winter grounds to improve browse for mule deer

A few of these things anyone can contribute to. Especially the doe tag one
Everyone, R/NR, should understand that we will never see the 70's/80's/90's again. But we should not accept 2024 as the best it can get.

 

[bullbugle307]

So WY residents just need to cough up about $44 million a year. For the roughly 75,000 resident hunters in Wyoming that's a $578 increase in your yearly

I think part of the point that the article was trying to make is that its not that there won't be 10 guys behind the person not willing to fork over the cash to play. It's about losing advocacy for the resource through the support that hunters provide nationwide. Less people applying, less advocacy. In my opinion, this topic has nothing to do with the cash flow into game and fish agencies. They will get their money, it just might be coming from less sources and also from less likely sources that support DIY public land types. I'm purely speculating here but in say Montana or Wyoming, isn't a lot of resident hunters the DIY, public land types? So while you may see less NR at your local honey hole chasing elk as a result, the hunter that now took that tag is sitting in a fancy lodge smoking cigars after his lobster dinner talking to his ranch landowner buddy how they can get a higher outfitter allocation using their pocket books to influence politics. Cause remember, that's the cash cow now since NR license and PP purchases aren't doing it anymore.

Are we sure that less people applying means less advocacy? Apologies to Randy, and his mission, but it sure doesn’t seem like pouring the gasoline on the fire that is interest in Western hunting has made any appreciable difference in advocacy that gets results.

I’m pretty sure most people, myself included at times, are more than happy to draw a tag and hunt it, and then find themselves busy when it comes time to show up for conservation.

I went to a fair amount of public meetings last year, commented on a lot of stuff, and wasted a ton of time on a CWD working group where our recommendations got trashed because of one large outfitter and their sway with the WGFD commission. Said outfitter was worried about killing all the older deer, but he had no problem showing us how many of those older deer his clients kill every year. Typical, just wants it all for himself and his clients, and was worried some of those older deer might get whacked by some redneck instead of a “good hunter” like him.

I am aware that I still put way more effort into trying to take from the resource than trying to give back. And that’s a problem given the current state of the resource.

And I’m also pretty sure I spent more time advocating for the resource than at least 75 percent of people on this thread complaining about their opportunity.

This hunting season was pathetic. I put in the work this year in a way I never have before. And I had less to show for it than ever before. Some of that is my fault, but it’s undeniable that even ten years ago I could just bumble around like an idiot with a rifle and fill tags with no problem. That’s not the case anymore.

Huge wake up call for me. This year, my goal is even up that ratio of time and money spent hunting and time and money spent on the resource. I’ll spend a week or more doing boots on the ground work making fencing more wildlife friendly in a migration corridor. And, even though I got an offer to cover supplies, I’ll likely try and pay for it all myself. And I’m looking for things to do beyond that, again, boots on the ground stuff, not just words that make no difference whatsoever.

I’m gonna end this rant now, but I really think people need to seriously check themselves when they say they won’t show and advocate if they can’t get their slice of the pie. Most folks have very little advocacy to “take back” in the first place.

 

[Matthew57]

No matter how many points I buy, I fully realize the game can be changed at any time by a state. I don’t feel entitled to hunt any state other than my own. Know what you’re getting into when you buy into a nonresident license/point and you won’t be disappointed…pretty simple. People were talking about nonresident demand falling off over a decade ago and look where we’re at.

 

[DFS]

OK.
How.

It’s a derail of the thread and I have a narrow point of view.

Montana could have winter come in the next two months and cut our deer herd in half again. The same amount of tags will be issued. This could happen over a long period of time some people notice and some people don’t. We could add tags for people that want to come home to hunt. Maybe start a push for hunting public land and people that want to do it themselves and every year. Add in a bunch of doe tags for the deer that reside on public. Next thing you know people earned it for a forkie. Washington hunters dream.

A little restraint get the population back up and you can have your funding. On the down years funding should be down.

Funding is the least of my worries it will be gone if we continue on our path.

 

[Buffs35]

Saying R's should shut up and be grateful that NRs are giving so much money to the state is an irresponsible argument.

Non residents aren't "giving" anything. When I apply in several states, my fees aren't a charitable donation.

 

[manitou1]

Interesting article.

If a states DNR/G&F is receiving so much federal and non-resident funding, who really is "entitled" to the animals?

What Happens If Nonresident License Prices Keep Climbing?

It’s supply and demand. The state’s residents own the game, full stop. States should cater to residents first. These statements pop up in every conversation and on every hunting forum when it comes to the resident/nonresident debate. The precedent set decades ago in the courts set up the system...

www.themeateater.com

Straight from Wyoming...

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/About%20Us/Commission/WGFD-Revenue-Fact-Sheet_FINAL.pdf

If states keep shitting on Non-Residents, why would non residents help where possible? Why should I donate to a corner crossing cause when WY and the residents want to keep all the tags for themselves? When it comes to conservation efforts, could WY really survive on 1/3rd of what their current revenue is?

Makes you wonder.

Wyoming has a huge (many millions of dollars) surplus in their budget every year.
They can survive.

 

[44hunter45]

Wake up call to the whiny poor unentitled non-residents who don't think it's fair... If you go on "strike" and "not gonna pay".. there's 10 guys behind you that will. Those high-priced NR permits will never get cheaper, and they're still going to get sold, every last one of them. For a soon to be revealed illustration of this fact - stay tuned for the 2024 drawing odds are for the WY "Special" NR elk licenses are this year, as they've risen to $2,000+ a pop. It's 2024 and the King's Deer is in high demand.

There it is.

This may sound like Matt Rinella, but I hope not. I personally think he is yelling, "Fire" while selling fire extinguishers.

Every year now we have a bitch thread about Idaho's online tag sales. I would never say the system does not need fixing, but it's the demand that is breaking it.
Those that bitch are in there to get a NR tag. If they are as pissed as they come off sounding here on HT, why not get out of the game? Hell, in Idaho you aren't even leaving points behind.

GoHunt's business model is screaming successful because they imply you could divine some honey tag if you run the numbers on Filtering 2.0 enough times. And I say that as a subscriber. The guys who consistently kill boonies in some high draw odds hell hole they found on GoHunt are the best of the best, not the newbie in the Keep Hammering shirt.

Back to @Oak 's chart.

What percentage of NR hunters are even members of a conservation NGO? How many do on the ground volunteering for the habitat or the species?
How many simply think that buying the tag is conservation enough? After all "Hunting IS Conservation." If the deer population in Colorado is about half what it was 17 years ago, that model isn't working.

 

[manitou1]

I guess hunting is my passion. I'd rather put my money into something that I have an opportunity to benefit from vs donating a bunch of money to benefit resident hunters.

I can understand $500 not saving a species. But what about $43.6 million? That helps right? How about $40 million every year?

This doesn't really have anything to do with the number of tags. This has to do with opportunity for non residents. Why is the tag allocation dropping all the time for non residents when they're doing the heavy lifting of funding the conservation efforts?

Because residents do the "heavy lifting" by paying registration taxes, real estate taxes, sales taxes... and shopping year round here.
Our real estate taxes have more than doubled in two years now.

You guys act like you are carrying the state financially because you dump a measley few dollars on a tag every now and then.

Get over yourselves.

 

[FI460]

There it is.

This may sound like Matt Rinella, but I hope not. I personally think he is yelling, "Fire" while selling fire extinguishers.

Every year now we have a bitch thread about Idaho's online tag sales. I would never say the system does not need fixing, but it's the demand that is breaking it.
Those that bitch are in there to get a NR tag. If they are as pissed as they come off sounding here on HT, why not get out of the game? Hell, in Idaho you aren't even leaving points behind.

GoHunt's business model is screaming successful because they imply you could divine some honey tag if you run the numbers on Filtering 2.0 enough times. And I say that as a subscriber. The guys who consistently kill boonies in some high draw odds hell hole they found on GoHunt are the best of the best, not the newbie in the Keep Hammering shirt.

Back to @Oak 's chart.

What percentage of NR hunters are even members of a conservation NGO? How many do on the ground volunteering for the habitat or the species?
How many simply think that buying the tag is conservation enough? After all "Hunting IS Conservation." If the deer population in Colorado is about half what it was 17 years ago, that model isn't working.

Well about 1.5% of U.S hunters are RMEF members, and my experience with volunteer orgs is that 2% of the group does 90% of the work...

So that chunk of folks who think they're doing enough by just buying a license is huge. I bet they're almost on even footing with the guys that whine about having to even pay for a license.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

If you are reciting a personal philosophy - good for you. If you are suggesting this is actually the framework of this republic then you are way off base.

Strictly rambling like a mad man....cause this topic is such a deadhorse.

 

[44hunter45]

Well about 1.5% of U.S hunters are RMEF members, and my experience with volunteer orgs is that 2% of the group does 90% of the work...

So that chunk of folks who think they're doing enough by just buying a license is huge. I bet they're almost on even footing with the guys that whine about having to even pay for a license.

Succinctly said.

I always use too many words.

 

[SAJ-99]

Every year now we have a bitch thread about Idaho's online tag sales. I would never say the system does not need fixing, but it's the demand that is breaking it.

No, we bitch that the high demand should make ID change the system and just make it a draw. I don't bitch if I don't get a tag. Their game, their rules, but the current system build by a sociopath.

 

[ccc23454]

No, we bitch that the high demand should make ID change the system and just make it a draw. I don't bitch if I don't get a tag. Their game, their rules, but the current system build by a sociopath.

Funny thing is i think it would go smoother if it was in april, simple date change. Idaho has a cash cow and they milking that sucker.

 

[SAJ-99]

Funny thing is i think it would go smoother if it was in april, simple date change. Idaho has a cash cow and they milking that sucker.

Sure I guess. But the owner of the cow is outfitters who pay an employee to stand in line and buy for mutilple clients. And we creep closer to the system being purely about $$$, which I think was the point of the original post.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

As society seems reluctant to learn - it’s legal until it isn’t. One good case. One good set of appellate judges. Or one sentence in an omnibus spending bill in DC and the game can change. So best to make allies rather than enemies of the 340 million people who don’t live in WY, MT and ID.

Nope. Best plan is to call every NR hunter you disagree with a whiny, entitled crappy hunter.