Crossbows During Archery- for a select few

[BuzzH]

But there's a technology line somewhere right?

We allow some technology but not all.

Laser guided missiles for rifle? No
Crossbows for archery? No

If you wanted to argue that we've already pushed that tech line too far with archery, I could support that. Cams? No. That's a legit argument. So is drawing that line between 0% hold and >0% hold.

I cannot shoot a compound more than 60 yards and even that is a stretch. But I can damn sure can @#)(# a crossbow, carry it all day, then shoot very accurately at 90 yards 6 hrs later. That's across my technology line.

I think we're saying the same thing, the technology line has blown well past the "blurred" stage in "archery".

It makes it pretty tough to condemn a crossbow when you look at the modern compound and with a straight face call that "archery" hunting.

Even Pope and Young has moved that blurry line closer and closer to crossbows, lighted knock allowed, higher percentage let-off, and other technology.

You can kill the messenger all you want, but to the average legislator they don't see a whole lot of difference between two mechanized dowel flinging devices that aren't anything close to what they saw in Robin Hood.

Crossbows are going to become legal in more and more places during "archery" season where they already aren't allowed.

 

[BuzzH]

Are rifle guys going to start getting rid of scope turrets,rangefinders, and better bullets?

Rifle seasons weren't founded on the argument that it was a special season, held outside the general rifle seasons, because of the self imposed limits on technology. That was what sold archery seasons being allowed to hunt outside the general seasons and during the elk rut, august openers for pronghorn, etc.

But, I get your point and yes, the same thing is happening in rifle hunting as well. Rifle hunters ARE paying the price for technology, less tags, shorter seasons, etc. Why do archery hunters feel like they won't pay a similar price with their technology?

A fair analogy for rifles would be that a .270 with all the turrets, scopes, and better bullets is fine, but its a bridge too far with a higher BC bullet with all the same crap from a .30 caliber.

That's a similar argument that compound guys are making to keep crossbows out of archery season, and I got news, they're going to fail in that arguement.

 

[bigsky2]

It sounds like the judge is dismissing the case, so we can stop this pointless arguing.

 

[Rzrbk]

I've never seen crossbow as an advantage. I know two people who started with crossbow and quickly went to compound. It's hard to enjoy hunting when you're lugging around a crossbow. Maybe the newer crossbows are magic? From what I've seen the bottom drops out quickly. I saw one post talking about 90 yard shots with a crossbow????? I imagine that's equivalent to a 600 yard rifle shot and not the norm. I got no problem with crossbows, most will be sold second hand within a year or so or packed in long-term storage.

The wounded animals, in my opinion, is more a lack of ethics than due to archery. It's the same with gun hunting....., here's how it goes down..., " I knew that was as close as I was going to get to the (elk, antelope, deer, whatever), so I let one rip; either I get it or I don't". It's about self-control, knowing your limits and having some morals/respect for the animals you chase. I've heard countless stories exactly as in quotes above. The fad today is gun hunters who actually desire a 600+ yard shot for bragging rights. In their opinion, that's the most important aspect and the first question they will ask other hunters "how far was the shot?".

 

[Pucky Freak]

I am 100% in favor of making crossbows legal for hunting. They just need to be legal during the gun season and NOT during bow season. Crossbows have far more in common with firearms than bows. The learning curve is about x100 times faster with a crossbow. 70 yard bow shots on big game? Maybe the top 5% of bow hunters can pull that off. Most have an effective range of 40 yards and in.

There is a huge problem with “primitive” season being corrupted by technology. It no longer exists in its original intent. Handheld rangefinders alone have revolutionized bow hunting. I am in favor of returning bow season to stick bows only.

States that have opened bow season to crossbows have come about overwhelmingly through a lobbying push of the crossbow manufacturing industry. This battle is fought every year in the IA legislature, and pushback comes from bow hunters and gun hunters who have a vested interest in maintaining the quality of hunting by not allowing deer to be hunted during the rut by crossguns. We have seen how IL and WI buck age class has dramatically declined since allowing crossbows during archery season, and most IA hunters do not want the same thing here. State legislators don’t have the same prerogative. They just seek the kickbacks from the industry reps.

One of the main talking points of the crossbow industry/legislative lobby is that there’s little difference between modern compounds and crossbows. @BuzzH, are you aware you are parroting an industry line?

 

[Akcabin]

Wow, the anti hunting groups love seeing hunters fight between themselves. So why should any one group get a priority because of the type of weapon they use ? Including folks who choose to use a bow.
For me. We continue to see a reduction in the number of folks who hunt fish and trap. Bow hunters got the laws changed to make it so they had a special season using politics. Now it's bad I guess. I support using a crossbow during archery season. I suspect the number of folks going into the field will still continue on a downward trend. Less hunters.
While we waste resources arguing amongst ourselves.
I personally don't think that anyone should get any special rights other than maybe youth hunters.

 

[Carnage2011]

Wow, the anti hunting groups love seeing hunters fight between themselves. So why should any one group get a priority because of the type of weapon they use ? Including folks who choose to use a bow.
For me. We continue to see a reduction in the number of folks who hunt fish and trap. Bow hunters got the laws changed to make it so they had a special season using politics. Now it's bad I guess. I support using a crossbow during archery season. I suspect the number of folks going into the field will still continue on a downward trend. Less hunters.
While we waste resources arguing amongst ourselves.
I personally don't think that anyone should get any special rights other than maybe youth hunters.

Pretty sure MT doesn’t have a hunter recruitment issue. We aren’t seeing less and less hunters in the field here…

 

[TOGIE]

i mean, it's irrelevant to the point of the thread, but if i were king of the world the only season that would allow crossbows would be muzzleloader. compound guys would get a two week window, and the trad guys would get the current archery season length.

oh, and elmiinate OTC tags in colorado

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Wahhh wahhhh wahhhhhh all the way to the judge. Eff that guy

 

[Talk2elk]

I see this as not a crossbow vs compound but a politician using his clout to sway the law. That is the real issue.

 

[BuzzH]

I am 100% in favor of making crossbows legal for hunting. They just need to be legal during the gun season and NOT during bow season. Crossbows have far more in common with firearms than bows. The learning curve is about x100 times faster with a crossbow. 70 yard bow shots on big game? Maybe the top 5% of bow hunters can pull that off. Most have an effective range of 40 yards and in.

There is a huge problem with “primitive” season being corrupted by technology. It no longer exists in its original intent. Handheld rangefinders alone have revolutionized bow hunting. I am in favor of returning bow season to stick bows only.

States that have opened bow season to crossbows have come about overwhelmingly through a lobbying push of the crossbow manufacturing industry. This battle is fought every year in the IA legislature, and pushback comes from bow hunters and gun hunters who have a vested interest in maintaining the quality of hunting by not allowing deer to be hunted during the rut by crossguns. We have seen how IL and WI buck age class has dramatically declined since allowing crossbows during archery season, and most IA hunters do not want the same thing here. State legislators don’t have the same prerogative. They just seek the kickbacks from the industry reps.

One of the main talking points of the crossbow industry/legislative lobby is that there’s little difference between modern compounds and crossbows. @BuzzH, are you aware you are parroting an industry line?

View attachment 192844

Yes, well aware that's some of the industry talking point, and unfortunately, they're correct.

Its not by chance that crossbows are becoming more and more common in all states, its because compound technology has (largely) caught up with crossbows in range, ease of shooting, etc. Yes, it is easy and I'll give you all the proof you need.

Also with the big push for R3 and public land hunting, isit not the goal to get as many new hunters involved as possible?

Seems counter-intuitive to limit crossbows during archery season if the goal is to increase hunter numbers and create advocates.

Seems like the very thing this and other forums seem to be promoting....yes?

 

[BuzzH]

I see this as not a crossbow vs compound but a politician using his clout to sway the law. That is the real issue.

Yes, for sure, that's the much bigger issue.

 

[TheTone]

Crossbows are becoming more accepted due to money and lobbying by the manufacturers, not because of technology or need

 

[BucksnDucks]

It's obviously a contentious issue in the hunting community. I have first hand experience with this living in a state with disabled archer permits available for archery only seasons and archery only limited draws in highly sought after units for deer. My experience is very few if any (can not remember a single one) "disabled" archers were former Bow hunter who now can not draw a bow. It appears the main holders of these permits are guys looking for a way to get tags and hunt special seasons without putting in the time and effort to become proficient with a bow.

 

[BuzzH]

Crossbows are becoming more accepted due to money and lobbying by the manufacturers, not because of technology or need

Sounds an awful lot like what the compound industry has done, and continues to do, to traditional archery over the years.

 

[antlerradar]

I'm trying to remember how many crossbows I've seen out in the mountains in Wyoming over the last 34 years, I can count them on 1 hand.
Crossbows will not ruin your hunting.

If Montana had Wyoming's season structure I might soften my view on Crossbows. The better we get at killing the sooner we in Montana go to chose your weapon, Shorter seasons, or all limited drawings. Will crossbows be the straw that brakes the camels back, probably not, but those restrictions are going to happen some day.

 

[BoulderBulls]

I've harvested big game animals with compound bow, xbow, muzzleloader, and rifle. As far as difficulty of harvest in the "moment of truth" compound is definitely tougher than bow strictly for the act of drawing the bow and I suppose having to hold if the animal doesn't behave, next is cross bow which is still a good bit tougher than muzzleloader and last rifle.

This is a much smaller and irrelevant argument in my opinion to clean air clean water and habitat improvements things that will actually move the needle on hunting...but those aren't nearly as sexy as this type of stuff

 

[EYJONAS!]

Are crossbows gonna be OK for the December boarder pound? If so I'm buying one.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Also with the big push for R3 and public land hunting, isit not the goal to get as many new hunters involved as possible?

Seems counter-intuitive to limit crossbows during archery season if the goal is to increase hunter numbers and create advocates.

Seems like the very thing this and other forums seem to be promoting....yes?

I am all for creating opportunities for crossbow hunters. In terms of weapon efficiency, crossbows are probably closest to muzzleloaders. IMO it makes more sense to allow crossbows during muzzleloader season than it does during early archery season. Rename it “muzzleloader and crossbow” season if you want.

Hunting terrain also makes a big difference in leveling the advantage of crossbows. WY has shown us that few people are willing to lug a crossbow up and down mountains in pursuit of elk and MD in Sept.

Technology advances in crossbows and compound bows are cutting into gun hunter recruitment numbers in places like CO and WI, where fewer and fewer hunters are buying OTC rifle tags.

 

[Pucky Freak]

I see this as not a crossbow vs compound but a politician using his clout to sway the law. That is the real issue.

The two are inter-related. MFWP is an agency corrupted from the top, existing primarily to cater to the wants of wealthy politicians, large landowners, and industry insiders. Any member of the ruling elite can tell MFWP what to do and the agency grants it. MFWP exists neither for the wildlife nor the people of MT.

The crossbow vs. compound issue is relevant because many people don’t think it matters, despite objecting to how the issue is being handled.

Imagine if Senator Molnar and his three buddies were granted temporary permission to shoot unleashed dogs out of people’s yards because they had filed a lawsuit regarding the limits of self-defense. There would be more of a public uproar because more people object to the proposed change itself.