Crossbows During Archery- for a select few

[BuzzH]

I am all for creating opportunities for crossbow hunters. In terms of weapon efficiency, crossbows are probably closest to muzzleloaders. IMO it makes more sense to allow crossbows during muzzleloader season than it does during early archery season. Rename it “muzzleloader and crossbow” season if you want.

Hunting terrain also makes a big difference in leveling the advantage of crossbows. WY has shown us that few people are willing to lug a crossbow up and down mountains in pursuit of elk and MD in Sept.

Technology advances in crossbows and compound bows are cutting into gun hunter recruitment numbers in places like CO and WI, where fewer and fewer hunters are buying OTC rifle tags.

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Not to go 15 rounds, but you haven't kept up with the technology, at all.

Crossbows are most comparable to ML's that shoot 250+ yards?

My muzzleloader is a rem. 700 a friend picked up for me on clearance from Walmart close to 20 years ago for $99...150 yards is no big deal to kill a deer.

My compound is close to 20 years old as well. Last time I hunted with it, I hadn't shot it all summer. Picked it up when a buddy came down to chase pronghorn. I happened to have 2 doe tags for the same unit so went with him.

I set up a blind on a waterhole and then shot my compound for the first time in 6 months, at 20,30,40,50, and 60 yards at a tin can in front of a clay bank. Everything was still dialed doubt I shot more than 12 shots.

Next morning, shot a doe pronghorn at 49 yards.

The following morning shot another at 26 yards.

Haven't shot it since then.

Do you think I could have pulled that off shooting 12 practice arrows in 6 months with a recurve or longbow?

Tell me again how "difficult" it is.

 

[rogerthat]

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Not to go 15 rounds, but you haven't kept up with the technology, at all.

Crossbows are most comparable to ML's that shoot 250+ yards?

My muzzleloader is a rem. 700 a friend picked up for me on clearance from Walmart close to 20 years ago for $99...150 yards is no big deal to kill a deer.

My compound is close to 20 years old as well. Last time I hunted with it, I hadn't shot it all summer. Picked it up when a buddy came down to chase pronghorn. I happened to have 2 doe tags for the same unit so went with him.

I set up a blind on a waterhole and then shot my compound for the first time in 6 months, at 20,30,40,50, and 60 yards at a tin can in front of a clay bank. Everything was still dialed doubt I shot more than 12 shots.

Next morning, shot a doe pronghorn at 49 yards.

The following morning shot another at 26 yards.

Haven't shot it since then.

Do you think I could have pulled that off shooting 12 practice arrows in 6 months with a recurve or longbow?

Tell me again how "difficult" it is.

I can't do that and I shoot all the time so you definitely have a really consistent anchor and good form habits. It's not that easy for most people I don't think. However, I unquestionably could do that with a crossbow x2 your yardages in fact. But to your point, I don't think anyone is saying a compound is anything like a traditional bow in terms of difficulty and I would say to take it further a crossbow is equally nothing like a compound bow. The difficulty is deciding what is archery? Is it the style of projectile that defines it? Or the fact that you have to draw it back in the moment? A crossbow is a gun with an arrow projectile. It's just a trigger pull. That's not archery. I would support additional archery restrictions to make it harder ie letoff restrictions, banning compound bows entirely but that's a whole different topic than allowing a weapon that doesn't need to be drawn back in the moment.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

I see this as not a crossbow vs compound but a politician using his clout to sway the law. That is the real issue.

This is exactly correct.

The case was dismissed but that doesn't change the fact that this attempt was made.
FWP will be meeting to discuss this issue in the future.

Now, back to attending to your region meetings or listening sessions or whatever they call them now.

 

[bullbugle307]

When I guided archery pronghorn hunters, the vast majority shot crossbows with a big ol scope off of shooting sticks. I think I guided one compound shooter out of about 10 hunters in two years.

It took me a long time to get consistent shooting a compound. It's like riding a bike now, I can get back into it pretty easy, but the learning curve for me, and I would guess for most is much steeper than Buzzs experience. I would still consider shooting a compound a discipline that one should practice quite a bit. I don't see that with crossbows. Some of the newer high dollar crossbows are to older crossbows what compounds are to recurve IMO.

That being said, it is what it is. In my state, they're allowed in archery season and I don't worry too much about it. Sometimes I think I wouldn't mind having to pick a weapon in Wyoming. I think that alone would really thin out the archery hunters. It's not something I'm gonna advocate for though. I do enjoy having the option to do both.

 

[Schaaf]

Now, back to attending to your region meetings or listening sessions or whatever they call them now.

Propaganda Presentations.

 

[teamhoyt]

This particular issue isnt about crossbow vs compound or its place in archery. It was about a person trying to get his own way through the court and fwp initially saying that it was ok for him and his buddies. Wtf is wrong with fwp and who the hell in fwp thinks they have the authority to just say sure go ahead. Something is seriously wrong if thats how business is allowed to be conducted.

As far as crossbow being allowed, im not for it. But at the end of the day everyone in mt gets 1 deer tag, not sure it matters how that deer dies or in What season it dies. I would bet the same amount of animals are dead at the end of the season.

 

[mtmiller]

Propaganda Checking the box Presentations.

FIFY

 

[timmy]

This particular issue isnt about crossbow vs compound or its place in archery. It was about a person trying to get his own way through the court and fwp initially saying that it was ok for him and his buddies. Wtf is wrong with fwp and who the hell in fwp thinks they have the authority to just say sure go ahead. Something is seriously wrong if thats how business is allowed to be conducted.

As far as crossbow being allowed, im not for it. But at the end of the day everyone in mt gets 1 deer tag, not sure it matters how that deer dies or in What season it dies. I would bet the same amount of animals are dead at the end of the season.

Interesting thought but hunting mule deer during the entire rut with a high powered rifle isn’t fair for animals and crossbows during the entire elk rut would be going down a similar path. Technology and increased hunter pressure on western game herds has advanced the game. Weapon restrictions and season structure changes are the only way to keep as many people in the field as possible without detriment to the big game herds.

 

[shootbrownelk]

You can give your opinion without sounding like an asshole. It's not that difficult.

All I heard was the truth. YMMV.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I can't do that and I shoot all the time so you definitely have a really consistent anchor and good form habits. It's not that easy for most people I don't think. However, I unquestionably could do that with a crossbow x2 your yardages in fact. But to your point, I don't think anyone is saying a compound is anything like a traditional bow in terms of difficulty and I would say to take it further a crossbow is equally nothing like a compound bow. The difficulty is deciding what is archery? Is it the style of projectile that defines it? Or the fact that you have to draw it back in the moment? A crossbow is a gun with an arrow projectile. It's just a trigger pull. That's not archery. I would support additional archery restrictions to make it harder ie letoff restrictions, banning compound bows entirely but that's a whole different topic than allowing a weapon that doesn't need to be drawn back in the moment.

When using a mechanical release with a compound bow, isn't that using a trigger? C'mon.

 

[timmy]

When using a mechanical release with a compound bow, isn't that using a trigger? C'mon.

Shoot off with a compound bow vs a crossbow. I can tell you who would win every time. Apparently you like to shoot your brown elk with a high powered rifle at extreme distances. C’mon. I wish I could forget the unethical shots I’ve witnessed by hunters taken at animals with a rifle on public land. Get out and about a little more.

 

[SFC B]

Couple things.

First off, I don't like the idea of anyone suing the MTFWP over this particular issue. That isn't a defense of the MTFWP, as they couldn't manage their way out of a wet paper sack. It's just the lack of working through the correct channels to get something like a crossbow season. Should have to go through the public process, commission, etc.

That said, I also see very little difference between a crossbow that can shoot 60-80 yards and a compound that can do the same. I mean, anyone shooting a compound these days actually NOT use a trigger release? Anyone shooting less than 75% let-off? Anyone shooting anything but carbon arrows? Cams? Sights?

I say the "archery" hunters have caused this problem when the only difference in modern compounds and crossbows is one is held vertically with 10-25% of the draw weight, the other 100% let-off and held horizontally.

The line between the two is so thin, I don't believe "archery" hunters are going to be able to hold off legalizing crossbows across the country.

There's a price to pay for advancements in technology and the compound guys never gave a chit when they ruined the intent of the early guys shooting traditional equipment. They pretty much told the traditional guys to suck it up and deal with it, us compound guys built a better mouse trap. If you don't like it, buy a compound is what I heard.

Now that their ox is being gored, they want to "limit" crossbows.

Hypocrites...

^^^^THIS!!! This fight has already been waged in the Midwest and in the end the truth was washed out.....that being that a LARGE portion of archery hunter's (the overwhelming majority being advanced compound guys) argument being based on the "WE'RE entitled to the first and longest shot at big deer (insert animal of choice) due to >skill, difficulty, tradition blah blah blah<". The root is a form of greed based in a feeling of superiority. There has NOT been a huge (or ANY for that matter) increase in harvest but what HAS happened is that this has added a venue for disabled, youth, older and female hunters who were either intimidated at the prospect of vertical archery equipment or are physically unable to EFFECTIVELY use it along with a higher percentage of animals actually recovered. Another portion to consider is the additional weight and bulk of carrying a crossbow up and down mountains (see WY comments above).

 

[bigsky2]

^^^^THIS!!! This fight has already been waged in the Midwest and in the end the truth was washed out.....that being that a LARGE portion of archery hunter's (the overwhelming majority being advanced compound guys) argument being based on the "WE'RE entitled to the first and longest shot at big deer (insert animal of choice) due to >skill, difficulty, tradition blah blah blah<". The root is a form of greed based in a feeling of superiority. There has NOT been a huge (or ANY for that matter) increase in harvest but what HAS happened is that this has added a venue for disabled, youth, older and female hunters who were either intimidated at the prospect of vertical archery equipment or are physically unable to EFFECTIVELY use it along with a higher percentage of animals actually recovered. Another portion to consider is the additional weight and bulk of carrying a crossbow up and down mountains (see WY comments above).

It hasn’t been a problem in WY because WY manages different than MT like some others have already mentioned.

Wisconsin made crossbows legal for everyone in 2014. From 2014 through 2020, crossbows accounted for 33%, 39%, 45%, 51%, 54%, 55% and 58% of the deer bow harvest. It's now become a given in Wisconsin that
more deer will be harvested by crossbow hunters than vertical bow users. It’s obvious they are an advantage over compound bows or you wouldn’t see this trend.

 

[timmy]

Hunters have become more effective and there are more people hunting the west and if you want to continue hunting most years there has to be a line drawn on technology. I would be open to archery restrictions but not less restrictions.

 

[BuzzH]

It hasn’t been a problem in WY because WY manages different than MT like some others have already mentioned.

Wisconsin made crossbows legal for everyone in 2014. From 2014 through 2020, crossbows accounted for 33%, 39%, 45%, 51%, 54%, 55% and 58% of the deer bow harvest. It's now become a given in Wisconsin that
more deer will be harvested by crossbow hunters than vertical bow users. It’s obvious they are an advantage over compound bows or you wouldn’t see this trend.

Does it matter how they die?

Compound, traditional, or crossbow?

What are the total harvest numbers on deer for those years?

 

[timmy]

Does it matter how they die?

Compound, traditional, or crossbow?

What are the total harvest numbers on deer for those years?

It does matter when you put the advantage to hunters instead of wildlife is it hunting? I know you enjoy hunting them with rifles and that’s fine if it is sustainable. Some people would like to have a closer experience with animals though and maybe do it more often.

 

[Trap]

I've harvested big game animals with compound bow, xbow, muzzleloader, and rifle. As far as difficulty of harvest in the "moment of truth" compound is definitely tougher than bow strictly for the act of drawing the bow and I suppose having to hold if the animal doesn't behave, next is cross bow which is still a good bit tougher than muzzleloader and last rifle.

This is a much smaller and irrelevant argument in my opinion to clean air clean water and habitat improvements things that will actually move the needle on hunting...but those aren't nearly as sexy as this type of stuff

I agree the biggest advantage to a crossbow is not having to draw your bow. I’m not talking sitting in a tree stand but calling in a bull and then drawing your bow undetected and possibly holding for what feels like hours waiting for him to step into a shooting lane. If crossbows and compound bows were exactly equal in all aspects of speed etc. the crossbow would still be 2x as easy to kill elk just not having to draw the bow back. I’m talking about on the ground calling elk in to you situations. This is really a political issue and this Molner guy sounds like a complete puss

 

[Sytes]

When using a mechanical release with a compound bow, isn't that using a trigger? C'mon.

I'm appreciating everyone's views. Some I may agree, others disagree, and there are those I'm indifferent towards...

IMO, a trigger for a compound bow vs a crossbow is equivalent to a simple rifle vs a sling shot.
One has a trigger, ready to aim and place finger pressure until it fires off its projectile.
The other one pulls the string, holds while its load is pressured to release, maintaining a pin while holding a vertical setup trigger along the cheek while viewing through a peep-sight.

Meh, difference of opinion though to simply point and pull the trigger, c'mon.

 

[BWALKER77]

Best Long Range Muzzleloaders of 2021

With competition muzzleloader shooting on the rise and muzzleloader hunting becoming increasingly popular, we decided that it was time for us to give you our pick for the best Long Range Muzzleloader in 2021. All muzzleloaders that are able to achieve an MOA group and carry lethal velocity at...

www.muzzle-loaders.com

Not to go 15 rounds, but you haven't kept up with the technology, at all.

Crossbows are most comparable to ML's that shoot 250+ yards?

My muzzleloader is a rem. 700 a friend picked up for me on clearance from Walmart close to 20 years ago for $99...150 yards is no big deal to kill a deer.

My compound is close to 20 years old as well. Last time I hunted with it, I hadn't shot it all summer. Picked it up when a buddy came down to chase pronghorn. I happened to have 2 doe tags for the same unit so went with him.

I set up a blind on a waterhole and then shot my compound for the first time in 6 months, at 20,30,40,50, and 60 yards at a tin can in front of a clay bank. Everything was still dialed doubt I shot more than 12 shots.

Next morning, shot a doe pronghorn at 49 yards.

The following morning shot another at 26 yards.

Haven't shot it since then.

Do you think I could have pulled that off shooting 12 practice arrows in 6 months with a recurve or longbow?

Tell me again how "difficult" it is.

I think that's pretty typical, Buzz. And as such the current season structure in most states needs to be looked at.

 

[BWALKER77]

I guess I would be more accepting of all these stunt seasons(MZ, Bow, Xbow) if they had the same seasons as rifle season. Some guys like bow hunting, I get it. Fine, do it during the general season. Of course it's mostly never been about the weapon used for most guys, it's just a way to gain preferential seasons, units, etc.