Corner Crossing

[Deleted member 28227]

it’s not some esoteric relic.

I hear you... but end of the day... westerners are just dicks with bizarre landownership fetishes - Am I right?

There are what 7.9, let's call it 8 Billion people in the world and what 40,000 people in western states in the the United States at most really give a crap about folks corner crossing, or even any semblance of an idea about what it is...

40,000 is honestly wildly high given how few own the land... nameless and I were working on this for MT at one point and I feel my guess is being very generous.

Anyway

So ~ at most 5 in a million people care.

Man even as far as fetishes go that's insanely niche...

 

[VikingsGuy]

I hear you... but end of the day... westerners are just dicks with bizarre landownership fetishes - Am I right?

There are what 7.9, let's call it 8 Billion people in the world and what 40,000 people in western states in the the United States at most really give a crap about folks corner crossing, or even any semblance of an idea about what it is...

40,000 is honestly wildly high given how few own the land... nameless and I were working on this for MT at one point and I feel my guess is being very generous.

Anyway

So ~ at most 5 in a million people care.

Man even as far as fetishes go that's insanely niche...

Haha -- as said before, I don't post to persuade the true believers, I post so the vast sea of lurkers get some semi-accurate info.

And it's not just western land ownership rules - it's almost every topic facing our society - people aggressively believe shit that is at best 10% factual. It is time just to hand the keys over to the Apes and get fitted for neck collars - our species has "jumped the shark".

 

[Dakotakid]

I hope someday it is actually decided. That decision could go either way, in the courts or in the legislature.

Private property rights are supported by most in Montana, to dismiss them as petty comes off as condescending.

Nor is Wyoming’s Attorney General consistent with Montana law.

https://www.wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2019/01-2019060313-04Trespass-CornerCrossing.pdf

Is directly rejected in the Montana Cherry case.

“¶12 Cherry relies on an incorrect understanding of the statute. Section 87-6-415, MCA, is titled "Failure to Obtain Landowner Permission for Hunting." The statute specifically states: "A resident or nonresident shall obtain permission of the landowner ... before taking or attempting to take game animals ... while hunting on private property." Section 87-6-415(1), MCA (emphasis added). The statutory definition of "hunt" provides that "taking or attempting to take game animals" is part and parcel of "hunting," specifically stating: "The term includes an attempt to take or harvest" a game animal, in addition to "pursu[ing], shoot[ing], wound [ing], tak[ing], harvest[ing], kill[ing], chas[ing], lur[ing], possess[ing], or captur[ing]" game animals.”

 

[TN_Rifle_Junkie]

Haha -- as said before, I don't post to persuade the true believers, I post so the vast sea of lurkers get some semi-accurate info.

And it's not just western land ownership rules - it's almost every topic facing our society - people aggressively believe shit that is at best 10% factual. It is time just to hand the keys over to the Apes and get fitted for neck collars - our species has "jumped the shark".

Too many people forget that our little community is searchable.

I could only imagine someone corner crossing, getting arrested, or worse, "attacked" by a landowner and using the excuse of "I read it on Randy Newberg's Hunttalk Forum"

THAT is the mentality of people nowadays. They all have smartphones, but are too stupid to make a phone call to find out the truth. ('Cause we all know, the internet is ALWAYS right in the court of public opinion)

 

[VikingsGuy]

Too many people forget that our little community is searchable.

I could only imagine someone corner crossing, getting arrested, or worse, "attacked" by a landowner and using the excuse of "I read it on Randy Newberg's Hunttalk Forum"

THAT is the mentality of people nowadays. They all have smartphones, but are too stupid to make a phone call to find out the truth. ('Cause we all know, the internet is ALWAYS right in the court of public opinion)

A good reminder that if we break down the etymology of the term "smartphone" - it is the phone that is smart, not the user

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Haha -- as said before, I don't post to persuade the true believers, I post so the vast sea of lurkers get some semi-accurate info.

It is a fair point, and I do think that it is important to provide accurate information. Not, well you can get away with, but this is the law.

 

[JM77]

I hope someday it is actually decided. That decision could go either way, in the courts or in the legislature.

Private property rights are supported by most in Montana, to dismiss them as petty comes off as condescending.

Nor is Wyoming’s Attorney General consistent with Montana law.

https://www.wyoleg.gov/InterimCommittee/2019/01-2019060313-04Trespass-CornerCrossing.pdf

Is directly rejected in the Montana Cherry case.

“¶12 Cherry relies on an incorrect understanding of the statute. Section 87-6-415, MCA, is titled "Failure to Obtain Landowner Permission for Hunting." The statute specifically states: "A resident or nonresident shall obtain permission of the landowner ... before taking or attempting to take game animals ... while hunting on private property." Section 87-6-415(1), MCA (emphasis added). The statutory definition of "hunt" provides that "taking or attempting to take game animals" is part and parcel of "hunting," specifically stating: "The term includes an attempt to take or harvest" a game animal, in addition to "pursu[ing], shoot[ing], wound [ing], tak[ing], harvest[ing], kill[ing], chas[ing], lur[ing], possess[ing], or captur[ing]" game animals.”

You might post things actually pertain to the corner cross issue.

 

[RobG]

Why would you get stuck with attorney fees? You could just pay the ticket(if you ever got one) or fight it at the lower court level. In Wyoming, we want to lose at the lower court level so it can be appealed. If that ever happened, donors are lined up to contribute to the cause.

Okay.... then you would get stuck with the fine. (And in MT you can lose your hunting privileges for two years for criminal trespass.)

Also, if it was easily solved in court don't you think one of the big groups would have solved it that way?

 

[RobG]

Too many people forget that our little community is searchable.

I could only imagine someone corner crossing, getting arrested, or worse, "attacked" by a landowner and using the excuse of "I read it on Randy Newberg's Hunttalk Forum"

THAT is the mentality of people nowadays. They all have smartphones, but are too stupid to make a phone call to find out the truth. ('Cause we all know, the internet is ALWAYS right in the court of public opinion)

Haha... in my trespassing case they were definitely monitoring what was going on here and added it to the discovery that they submitted.

 

[JM77]

Also, if it was easily solved in court don't you think one of the big groups would have solved it that way?

One of the big groups? Nevermind....

 

[JM77]

Haha... in my trespassing case they were definitely monitoring what was going on here and added it to the discovery that they submitted.

What were you trespassed for? Corner cross?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

What were you trespassed for? Corner cross?

The Fight for Public Land in Montana's Crazy Mountains

In the last 18 months, long-simmering disputes have boiled over amid claims of trespassing, political meddling, government bullying, and retaliation. Some worry that what’s happening there may harbinger what’s to come on public land across the nation. It’s enough to call the situation, well, you...

www.outsideonline.com

Crazy Mountain access update

Hi Folks, There was an editorial in the Billings Gazette that deserves another side of the story so it is time for an update. First, some background. The trail I got my ticket on, trail 135, is on the east side of the Crazy Mountains between Big Timber and Sweet Grass Creeks. It is, however...

www.hunttalk.com

 

[Dakotakid]

You might post things actually pertain to the corner cross issue.

You seem confused, what part do you need help with?

Is it That the question is about Montana?

Or that the Montana Supreme Court decided different than the Wy Ag? Because the reasoning of the Wy AG was argued by defendant in Cherry and directly rejected.

 

[RobG]

What were you trespassed for? Corner cross?

Using a Forest Service trail in the Crazy Mountains that was historically public, but lightly used. The landowner put up no trespassing signs and I ignored them incorrectly thinking a court case would make it public. (Again, if it was as simple as that BHA would do it.) It created a firestorm that got people talking and right now a land exchange is being negotiated to consolidate the land for public access.

The problem in the Crazies is also checkerboard. You could corner cross there but it is very inconvenient. This is especially true because it is nasty country. Considering the sheriff and county attorney both have vested interests in limiting access I wouldn't count on not being ticketed and prosecuted on the Sweet Grass side.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

right now a land exchange is being negotiated to consolidate the land for public access.

The East Crazy Mountains and Inspiration Divide Public Access Improvement Land Exchange

 

[antlerradar]

Using a Forest Service trail in the Crazy Mountains that was historically public, but lightly used. The landowner put up no trespassing signs and I ignored them incorrectly thinking a court case would make it public. (Again, if it was as simple as that BHA would do it.) It created a firestorm that got people talking and right now a land exchange is being negotiated to consolidate the land for public access.

The problem in the Crazies is also checkerboard. You could corner cross there but it is very inconvenient. This is especially true because it is nasty country. Considering the sheriff and county attorney both have vested interests in limiting access I wouldn't count on not being ticketed and prosecuted on the Sweet Grass side.

Are the corners in the Crazies even pined?

 

[300stw]

why does "hunting" have to be tied with the corner crossing argument,,,,who cares if its nude people going to a hot springs, and there is a corner cross,,,,
locally, i had a state lands employee, actually tell me, to cross at the post were we just surveyed, you"ll be ok,,,,,, didnt record that conversation though,,,,

 

[JM77]

You seem confused, what part do you need help with?

Is it That the question is about Montana?

Or that the Montana Supreme Court decided different than the Wy Ag? Because the reasoning of the Wy AG was argued by defendant in Cherry and directly rejected.

The confusion lies with you I'm afraid. Cherry's ticket for corner cross trespass was thrown out. Correct?

 

[JM77]

Using a Forest Service trail in the Crazy Mountains that was historically public, but lightly used. The landowner put up no trespassing signs and I ignored them incorrectly thinking a court case would make it public. (Again, if it was as simple as that BHA would do it.) It created a firestorm that got people talking and right now a land exchange is being negotiated to consolidate the land for public access.

The problem in the Crazies is also checkerboard. You could corner cross there but it is very inconvenient. This is especially true because it is nasty country. Considering the sheriff and county attorney both have vested interests in limiting access I wouldn't count on not being ticketed and prosecuted on the Sweet Grass side.

I hope this situation is resolved Rob. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[TN_Rifle_Junkie]

Haha... in my trespassing case they were definitely monitoring what was going on here and added it to the discovery that they submitted.

I remember that case... Vividly. This is why having law-filled conversations are the only option here.

If you want to give a guy a "recommendation" based on what you have seen/done in certain areas, doing it in PM's defintely the smartest answer.

Having an open discussion on a new proposed actionable law introduced to a state legislative body to promote corner crossing would be a much better topic.

A western hunting public land advocacy PAC still needs to be formed. I have my donations set aside waiting... Whether it is state by state, or as a whole, I am ready to put my money where my morals are and support public land advocacy for the betterment of all.