Corner Crossing

[RobG]

I believe cherry was convicted of criminal trespass and he is now being sued civilly.

State v. Cherry

The Supreme Court affirmed the judgment of the district court affirming a justice court verdict finding Appellant guilty of failure to obtain landowner permission for hunting, holding the district court correctly affirmed Appellant's conviction.

law.justia.com

He had two violations. One was a corner crossing that was thrown out. I'm wondering what type of trespassing he was cited for in the corner crossing case that was thrown out.

The court case referenced above is for the second violation, which was crossing an 80' section of private land that he unsuccessfully claimed to have a prescriptive right to use. The fact that he was convicted for "hunting" while just crossing the private land is quite disturbing to me and I can think of a lot of examples where it clearly isn't true, e.g. walking in at night. What do you think about the "hunting" conviction @JLS?

 

[TheJason]

@RobG under the definition of hunt, it lists the act of a person possessing a weapon as part of it. Therefore, no immediate intent has to be proven. It essentially eliminates the loophole that you didn’t intend to hunt on that ground, you were just going to the public land to hunt because all you had to do was be in possession of a weapon at the time.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Did one of them high powered lawyers catch that horse stepping across a corner pin?

Well, at least one low-powered lawyer has done a little corner crossing - preferably when the corner pin is present.

 

[TheJason]

Did one of them high powered lawyers catch that horse stepping across a corner pin?

Don’t forget, there’s a whole stable of them. And, they are highly competent (or so I was told several times).

 

[RobG]

@RobG under the definition of hunt, it lists the act of a person possessing a weapon as part of it. Therefore, no immediate intent has to be proven. It essentially eliminates the loophole that you didn’t intend to hunt on that ground, you were just going to the public land to hunt because all you had to do was be in possession of a weapon at the time.

Thanks, I didn't know that, but there must be something else; otherwise why couldn't you be cited for hunting at night when walking in before sunrise?

 

[Dakotakid]

He had two violations. One was a corner crossing that was thrown out. I'm wondering what type of trespassing he was cited for in the corner crossing case that was thrown out.

The court case referenced above is for the second violation, which was crossing an 80' section of private land that he unsuccessfully claimed to have a prescriptive right to use. The fact that he was convicted for "hunting" while just crossing the private land is quite disturbing to me and I can think of a lot of examples where it clearly isn't true, e.g. walking in at night. What do you think about the "hunting" conviction @JLS?

He had two violations. One was a corner crossing that was thrown out. I'm wondering what type of trespassing he was cited for in the corner crossing case that was thrown out.

The court case referenced above is for the second violation, which was crossing an 80' section of private land that he unsuccessfully claimed to have a prescriptive right to use. The fact that he was convicted for "hunting" while just crossing the private land is quite disturbing to me and I can think of a lot of examples where it clearly isn't true, e.g. walking in at night. What do you think about the "hunting" conviction @JLS?

One was dismissed by prosecutor- not really a thrown out scenario, more of that it is not worth the resources to litigate the issue.

The hunt talk podcast has a discussion on the civil liability for corner crossing.

It really is beating a dead horse issue, until more definitive law is made, it is Wild West. Unfortunately, the issue will continue to fester until violence occurs.

 

[Dakotakid]

Thanks, I didn't know that, but there must be something else; otherwise why couldn't you be cited for hunting at night when walking in before sunrise?

He was trespassing…
Hope I used those correctly.

 

[RobG]

One was dismissed by prosecutor- not really a thrown out scenario, more of that it is not worth the resources to litigate the issue.

The hunt talk podcast has a discussion on the civil liability for corner crossing.

It really is beating a dead horse issue, until more definitive law is made, it is Wild West. Unfortunately, the issue will continue to fester until violence occurs.

Which podcast was that?

Feral horses need to be beaten until hunting them becomes an option.

[edit, removed bad link]

 

[Dakotakid]

Hunt talk I believe, I heard Mr Newberg discussing it on one of the others.

I would enjoy reading Swandel’s memo on why he took position that it was not a crime. If any one has that.

 

[RobG]

Here is Swandal's opinion used as the basis for not prosecuting the corner crossing.

 

[Dakotakid]

As legal reasonings go, that does not appear very robust. Current law regarding airspace does not track Nels conclusions.

 

[JM77]

The hunt talk podcast has a discussion on the civil liability for corner crossing.

I would like to hear the podcast that talks about civil liability.

A civil case requires some type of damage. Now everyone please put on your thinking caps and share what damages a landowner can claim when someone steps from corner to corner of public land.

 

[RobG]

I found this recent article by Don Thomas. Note that he says Utah, Idaho, Colorado and New Mexico have specifically made corner crossing illegal.

Our Checkered Past

And our checkerboarded present. A history of patchwork land ownership in the west. To prove legal title to land, one must trace it back to the man who stole it. —Lloyd George, former Prime Minister of the UK Right triangles, trapezoids, parallelograms...

outsidebozeman.com

Many private landowners have taken the position that corner-crossing constitutes trespass. In fact, no Montana law makes corner-crossing legal or illegal, leaving the decision to file trespassing charges up to individual county attorneys. Predictably, the results have been mixed, creating confusion around the state. Bills attempting to clarify the matter by formally legalizing corner-crossing came before the Wyoming Legislature in 2011 and Montana’s in 2013. Both were defeated. Other western states (Utah, Idaho, Colorado, New Mexico) have specifically identified corner-crossing as trespass. Meanwhile, over 700,000 acres of public land in Montana remains inaccessible because of inability to cross corners legally.

 

[RobG]

I would like to hear the podcast that talks about civil liability.

A civil case requires some type of damage. Now everyone please put on your thinking caps and share what damages a landowner can claim when someone steps from corner to corner of public land.

I've been wondering the same thing. I found this on the internet so caveats apply...

Damages – Trespass

trespass.uslegal.com

Damages available on an action for trespass may include:

• diminution of market value,
• costs of restoration,
• loss of use of the property,
  [*]physical injury to the person or to the land ,
  [*]emotional distress without a physical injury to the person or to the land,and
  [*]discomfort and annoyance to a property owner as a possessor of the property[ii].
  

Is there any way to pull up the civil suit against Cherry?
rg

 

[Dakotakid]

It would require someone in Livingston to go to courthouse and get a copy.

 

[JM77]

Let me add this to the "not legal" or "not illegal" description. Wyoming has the same status with corner crossing as Montana. In my county, no LEO will write the ticket; the DA won't prosecute it. In a nearby county, both Sheriff and DA affirm they will write and prosecute it.

But wait a minute. In the aforementioned county that threatens prosecution, sportsman have tried to get the ticket and there is only a warning given. The DA knows any guilty verdict in the lower court, which has yet to happen, will be overturned at the appellate level, thereby causing precedent.

In the meantime, I'm hunting our public lands.

 

[2ski]

Well Austin Knudsen is inept... so you've got that going for you.

Ahhhhh. I can't believe how bad he is. I think he's the worst one of the land board offices. We'll tie him with Elsie.

 

[BourbonSnowCone]

FYI i was told by a warden that their direction is to not write a ticket for corner crossing. Any instance of corner crossing that a landowner wants pursued is sent to the county attorney. Depending on the county (Gallatin etc) i bet you’re good criminally.

 

[mstolte]

I wish it was more definitive on whether it was legal or illegal to corner cross. With that said, I am gong to air on the side of caution and continue not to do it as I never have. I do think, it is important to know our rights and know where we can and cannot be. IE: My wife and I were on the Jefferson fishing and we had landowners come and try to scare us from being on the river although we were completely legal for the stream access law. We were below the high water marks and entered the stream legally from a fishing access site.

 

[Luke_with_a_lab]

Has there been any talk of a donation type account set up in advance to support whoever wants to be the guinea pig? Its going to happen sooner than later and hopefully there will be many public land hunters willing to donate to the legal expenses incurred by the person who test's it in court. When that happens I would think quicker the hunting public could get an experienced and likely very expensive legal team in defense of the person that would be ideal. Realistically when the case is actually tried it could become the "precedent". There would be no sense in messing around with an inferior legal team.