Colorado Assault Weapons Ban Submitted

[BigHornRam]

Yeah, let them eat cake.

Please Marie! You can argue better than that.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Gotta get out of the echo chamber and read the room.

View attachment 260583

Lots of issues with that poll. Not enough there to convince me to discard the second amendment. 59% combined with the margin of error isn’t necessarily a resounding mandate. Even more interesting is the “AR-15 and similar semi automatic weapons”, that language really opens the ban up. This is similar to the draft CO bill that was leaked. It would preclude CO citizens from owning a whole host semi automatic firearms, with most used in purely hunting/sporting activities. As stated many times earlier, politicians would be better served looking at mental health reform and cleaning up/enforcing the laws already in the books. But that would better serve the people, they are more concerned with courting big money anti gun activists and donors.

 

[SAJ-99]

Please Marie! You can argue better than that.

I thought it was very good. Brief and accurate (brevity is a skill). The lack an ability to have empathy for another's position. You have already formed your opinions and they are right regardless of the data or anyone else. The rest of the world can eat it. Kind of sums up why America is failing at so many things, too. People seem to take more joy in sticking it to the opposing "tribe" than they do in solving problems.

Happy Friday. Don't worry about the national debt too much this weekend.

 

[SAJ-99]

Lots of issues with that poll. Not enough there to convince me to discard the second amendment. 59% combined with the margin of error isn’t necessarily a resounding mandate. Even more interesting is the “AR-15 and similar semi automatic weapons”, that language really opens the ban up. This similar to the draft CO bill that was leaked. It would preclude CO citizens from owning a whole host semi automatic firearms, with most used in hunting/sporting activities. As stated many times earlier, politicians would be better served looking at mental health reform and cleaning up/enforcing the laws already in the books. But that would better serve the people, they are more concerned with courting big money anti gun activists and donors.

This is nothing wrong with the poll. NORC (the stupid University of Chicago, as BHR call it) is an organization that does surveys on a lot of topics. I just filled one out on hunting and fishing, for example. I'm sure that data would be used by many on this board to support a position they believed in. We tend to like cherry picking data, or as Simon and Garfunkel put it, A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

All for mental health reform. How do we pay for it?

 

[Dsnow9]

This is nothing wrong with the poll. NORC (the stupid University of Chicago, as BHR call it) is an organization that does surveys on a lot of topics. I just filled one out on hunting and fishing, for example. I'm sure that data would be used by many on this board to support a position they believed in. We tend to like cherry picking data, or as Simon and Garfunkel put it, A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

All for mental health reform. How do we pay for it?

Pittman Robertson type of thing???? A small tax on all firearm related purchases that goes towards mental health reform. Might want to just start by banning social media though, that would solve an insane amount of mental health issues.

 

[Bullbrl]

All this talk of compromise. Can someone tell me what the anti-gun lobby is willing to compromise on? Seems to me the only side giving up anything are gun owners.

For the thousandth time, if you think gun restrictions are going to stop criminals and crazy people from doing bad things, you're delusional. Criminals don't give a rip about laws and crazy people with the intent to do harm will find a way no matter what. The tool and the avenue will change but the harm will be done no matter what. Seems to me we just had some murders in Idaho with a knife, 4 people which make it a mass killing. Are we going to talk about banning knives? In the not so distant past we had a guy use a car to run down people during a parade. Where are the calls to ban cars? What about hands and feet? Have you seen the statistics on those?

We could go down this path all day but in the end, bad people are going to do bad things.

 

[Nicoli7153]

Why would anyone want to fund something that helps eliminate mass casualty events AND addresses homelessness, drug addiction, etc.....

The shift from state run institutions was done decades ago to save money. The thought was that people could be medicated. Might work if people took their medications but they don't because of side effects. Ask anyone in LE and they'll tell you.. They deal with them constantly. No place to take these people when they're in crisis no beds available.

Anything infringes on any bill of right issue is almost guaranteed to go to federal appellate courts. Why do these legislators bother with this .........? Easy ... get votes after beating a dead horse.

My two cents

 

[bayoublaster7527]

This is nothing wrong with the poll. NORC (the stupid University of Chicago, as BHR call it) is an organization that does surveys on a lot of topics. I just filled one out on hunting and fishing, for example. I'm sure that data would be used by many on this board to support a position they believed in. We tend to like cherry picking data, or as Simon and Garfunkel put it, A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

All for mental health reform. How do we pay for it?

I am sure we could find some much less important government programs to take from if our politicians were really so concerned with gun violence.

I always wonder if the sportsmen in favor of these gun/ammunition bans/restrictions realize what that would do to Pittman Robertson for wildlife conservation? Just a thought.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I always wonder if the sportsmen in favor of these gun/ammunition bans/restrictions realize what that would do to Pittman Robertson for wildlife conservation? Just a thought.

Remember that one time the republicans tried to repeal PR, because they don’t care about hunting and said it was a 2A violation?


https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/re...n-firearms-and-ammunition.313899/post-3429735

 

[Doublecluck]

The shift from state run institutions was done decades ago to save money. The thought was that people could be medicated. Might work if people took their medications but they don't because of side effects. Ask anyone in LE and they'll tell you.. They deal with them constantly. No place to take these people when their in crisis no beds available.

Anything infringes on any bill of right issue is almost guaranteed to go to federal appellate courts. Why do these legislators bother with this .........? Easy ... get votes after beating a dead horse.

My two cents

I don’t think our institutions are going to solve the problem. In fact I think In some ways our institutions made the problem.

In nearly every instance of a school shooting there was warning signs, hell much of the time the perps literally said they were going to do it. In nearly every instance of mass shooting the perp had childhood trauma. In nearly every instance of inner city shootings the perps come from fatherless homes.

“In a study of 56 school shootings, only 10 of the shooters (18%) were raised in a stable home”

“63% of youth suicide victims are from fatherless homes. 90% of all homeless and runaway children come from fatherless homes. 70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions and 85% of youth in prisons come from fatherless homes. 80% of rapists come from fatherless homes.”

“71% of teachers and 90% of law enforcement officials state that the lack of parental supervision at home is a major factor that contributes to violence in schools.”

“Fatherless children are six times more likely to live in poverty and commit criminal acts than children raised in dual-parent households”

What are we going to do about guns? Or what are we going to do about boys!

 

[SAJ-99]

I am sure we could find some much less important government programs to take from if our politicians were really so concerned with gun violence.

I always wonder if the sportsmen in favor of these gun/ammunition bans/restrictions realize what that would do to Pittman Robertson for wildlife conservation? Just a thought.

Name those programs?

Just a guess, but I would bet it would have almost zero effect on PR funding. Most of the earlier proposal was about licensing the person, not the firearm. Banning ARs is stupid because there are so many of them now. The ship sailed when gun manufacturers marketing the idea that you had to own want if you wanted to be a real man. The focus should be on making sure they stay in the hands of sane, legal owners.

What are we going to do about guns? Or what are we going to do about boys!

What is your proposal? You might be surprised what I would support.

 

[BigHornRam]

I thought it was very good. Brief and accurate (brevity is a skill). The lack an ability to have empathy for another's position. You have already formed your opinions and they are right regardless of the data or anyone else. The rest of the world can eat it. Kind of sums up why America is failing at so many things, too. People seem to take more joy in sticking it to the opposing "tribe" than they do in solving problems.

Happy Friday. Don't worry about the national debt too much this weekend.

Marie was okay with the French peasants starving according to some, hence the quote you are using. What does that have to do with with defending the 2nd Amendment? If anything, team gun grabber is at the helm while the economy is heading for the ditch. Cake anyone?

 

[Nicoli7153]

In nearly every instance of a school shooting there was warning signs, hell much of the time the perps literally said they were going to do it.

“In a study of 56 school shootings, only 10 of the shooters (18%) were raised in a stable home”

“63% of youth suicide victims are from fatherless homes. 90% of all homeless and runaway children come from fatherless homes. 70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions and 85% of youth in prisons come from fatherless homes. 80% of rapists come from fatherless homes.”

“71% of teachers and 90% of law enforcement officials state that the lack of parental supervision at home is a major factor that contributes to violence in schools.”

“Fatherless children are six times more likely to live in poverty and commit criminal acts than children raised in dual-parent households”

What are we going to do about guns? Or what are we going to do about boys!

In nearly every instance of a school shooting there was warning signs, hell much of the time the perps literally said they were going to do it.

“In a study of 56 school shootings, only 10 of the shooters (18%) were raised in a stable home”

“63% of youth suicide victims are from fatherless homes. 90% of all homeless and runaway children come from fatherless homes. 70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions and 85% of youth in prisons come from fatherless homes. 80% of rapists come from fatherless homes.”

“71% of teachers and 90% of law enforcement officials state that the lack of parental supervision at home is a major factor that contributes to violence in schools.”

“Fatherless children are six times more likely to live in poverty and commit criminal acts than children raised in dual-parent households”

What are we going to do about guns? Or what are we going to do about boys!

They want a quick, easy, cheap fix even if it's ineffective so they can say they tried.. pandering to their base

 

[longbow51]

In nearly every instance of a school shooting there was warning signs, hell much of the time the perps literally said they were going to do it. In nearly every instance of mass shooting the perp was har childhood trauma. In nearly every instance of inner city shootings the perps come from fatherless homes.

“In a study of 56 school shootings, only 10 of the shooters (18%) were raised in a stable home”

“63% of youth suicide victims are from fatherless homes. 90% of all homeless and runaway children come from fatherless homes. 70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions and 85% of youth in prisons come from fatherless homes. 80% of rapists come from fatherless homes.”

“71% of teachers and 90% of law enforcement officials state that the lack of parental supervision at home is a major factor that contributes to violence in schools.”

“Fatherless children are six times more likely to live in poverty and commit criminal acts than children raised in dual-parent households”

What are we going to do about guns? Or what are we going to do about boys!

Let's remember exactly who, in large part, created fatherless homes; the late LBJ and the Great Society. Read Thomas Sowell. Reverse incentives, perhaps.

 

[SAJ-99]

Marie was okay with the French peasants starving according to some, hence the quote you are using. What does that have to do with with defending the 2nd Amendment? If anything, team gun grabber is at the helm while the economy is heading for the ditch. Cake anyone?

First, not even sure she said it, but "cake" is a poor translation from the French version. Brioche is a fancy type of bread enriched with eggs and butter. So if you are told that the people have no bread (poor harvest) saying let them eat "brioche" shows a lack of understanding to their position. Bread is a simple food. If they can't find that, no way in hell they can find brioche (cake). It's about a lack of empathy for what others feel.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I don’t wholeheartedly disagree with the points you make and rarely do. We are just looking at this from 2 different angles. It’s admiral to look at horrific things happening and deciding to try to do something about it.

My perspective is it’s a societal decay problem. While we think our society is evolving in an upward trend, it’s not in all aspects. The decay of morality, right and wrong, a sense of self worth, and ambition has driven a large part of society to the brink. Instead of focusing on getting out streets cleaned up and giving people purpose we make rules and tell them it’s not their fault, it’s the guns fault, or the drugs fault.


Basically I look at it as there is no laws, rules, or regulations that are going to get the homeless drug adiduct, the kid that’s picked on in school and has no self worth, the depressed person driven into a tailspin by watching politicized news, to continue down the path of carrying out a bad thing. It’s been in society forever, bigger population exacerbates it. So we go the way of communism and force everyone onto a path, or you live as a “free” society and deal with it. There’s no in between, we are trending towards totalitarianism. There’s not a damn thing I can do to really stop it, people want rules, we’ll get rules. It only applies to those of us who follow them. You aren’t punishing the people who will shoot up a place, sure you might prevent a shooting, but who’s to say they don’t find something somewhere else more destructive that harms more people.

This probably sounds very syndical, but written human history backs it up fairly decently.

It's interesting, I was watching peaky blinders a while back and thought the similarities as far as political climate were pretty interesting between the 3rd season and now. Huge resurgence in populism/nationalism in the 30s and rise of fascists, things are waaaaaay better now than in the 30s... but still interesting.

I think a lot of folks share your sentiments, and the solutions are super complex and involve changes to all aspects of our society. These discussions tend to sprawl because obviously it's bigger than just guns.

My perspective here is folks keep voting for these wing nuts who are promising to smash it out of the park for their team, that's horse pucky, they never do that's not how the system works.

I'm a big fan of the guy that consistently hits singles and doubles, those are the kinds of solutions we need.

 

[Scott85]

I think the first step should be full enforcement of current laws on the books and no half ass prosecution of those who break said laws.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Remember that one time the republicans tried to repeal PR, because they don’t care about hunting and said it was a 2A violation?

View attachment 260616
https://www.hunttalk.com/threads/re...n-firearms-and-ammunition.313899/post-3429735

I’m trying to recall when they repealed PR? Can you help me?

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Name those programs?

Just a guess, but I would bet it would have almost zero effect on PR funding. Most of the earlier proposal was about licensing the person, not the firearm. Banning ARs is stupid because there are so many of them now. The ship sailed when gun manufacturers marketing the idea that you had to own want if you wanted to be a real man. The focus should be on making sure they stay in the hands of sane, legal owners.

What is your proposal? You might be surprised what I would support.

I would support standardizing shall issue concealed carry nationwide, removing suppressors from NFA. Maybe we are talking past each other, but the CO proposal went well beyond licensing and well beyond banning just ARs. Honestly I don’t have to time to peruse the federal authorization act but I’m sure there is some fat in there somewhere that could be redirected.

Zero effect, really? If most semi autos were banned it would have zero effect?

Hopefully the Polis party in Colo sees the futility in AR bans like you said.

 

[BigHornRam]

First, not even sure she said it, but "cake" is a poor translation from the French version. Brioche is a fancy type of bread enriched with eggs and butter. So if you are told that the people have no bread (poor harvest) saying let them eat "brioche" shows a lack of understanding to their position. Bread is a simple food. If they can't find that, no way in hell they can find brioche (cake). It's about a lack of empathy for what others feel.

Cake, brioche, or bread, team gun grabber better focus their attention on the economy, and leave the 2nd amendment alone for now, otherwise they are going to lose their SCJ appointment privileges for a long time.