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Cecil the Lion

Southwind said:
Outlaw lion hunting in Zim and in a decade there will be none. With 80% unemployment in a severely corrupt system the only thing giving value to the Lions is hunting. Hunting is paying the way for conservation of these animals not eco terrorism, I mean tourism.

I think a lot of smoke needs to clear first, I have seen a lot of conflicting information.

And as much as it's not my cup of tea these acts reported as criminal are legal in Zim.

Baiting, killing an animal and dragging a scent trail to blind
Using artificial light and hunting at night

There are a lot of questions I don't believe have been answered on permits and their system is nothing remotely like ours so I will reserve judgment on that.

The park boundaries are not defined nor marked but that is the ph's responsibility to know. If indeed they did drag the bait through the park do we know if that is illegal.
Would we consider calling an elk across property lines unethical?

I have some 2nd hand knowledge of this ph. A very good friend lion hunted with him and his hunt was 180 degrees different than this one. From what they tell me he is a successful well respected ph and couldn't see him doing this but as well know money can corrupt and in the corrupt world of Zim where bribery is everyday life then maybe he succumbed to it. Not an excuse but maybe a by-product of Zim.

I was also told he has plenty of lions and has even had to relocate lions off his concessions because of the population was hurting his Sable population.

But, it is suspicious they only mention one ph when 2 licensed ph's are required on all dangerous game hunts. I also noticed DSC and SCI have taken a stance against the ph. (What do they know)

Anyway, if he/ they are guilty then hopefully they will get their due but I will hold my judgment for now.

What I despise is the social media/uninformed media public execution.

It bugs me when these couch slugs are so outraged by this but dead silent on chopping up babies and selling off the parts.
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I'm with Southwind. What I also find crazy is I bet a week ago you couldn't find 100 people who even knew this Cecil even existed. . .now its a world wide tragedy. IMO, it seems everything in Africa is controlled by money/corruption, so, it really doesn't surprise me that this goes on. . .not that I agree with it, but seems to be the way of the new world. . .sad.
 
RUT JUNKEY said:
I'm with Southwind. What I also find crazy is I bet a week ago you couldn't find 100 people who even knew this Cecil even existed. . .now its a world wide tragedy. IMO, it seems everything in Africa is controlled by money/corruption, so, it really doesn't surprise me that this goes on. . .not that I agree with it, but seems to be the way of the new world. . .sad.
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I couldn't agree more. I find the lack of shame and misaligned values in America deeply troubling, and pray for a better future.
 
I have no desire to hunt in Africa. There is a ton of nuance and complexity as to whether or not African hunting is a net-gain for wildlife and people, and I think powerful arguments can me made that it does.

Both Joe Rogan and others have said this documentary does a good job highlighting those positive effects.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/louis-therouxs-african-hunting-holiday/

Here's the thing. It's tough to justify the destruction of an animal in the name of the hunter's experience of that animal's destruction. Rarely is African hunting necessary management. And though the animals killed in Africa are consumed by locals, from the hunter doing the killings perspective, it isn't about the food. Think of how powerful the arguments of food and management are when it comes to hunting in North America. Try and justify hunting without them in the name of the experience only.....Not easy to do and far less convincing.

Yeah it's just a cat. Yeah there are bigger fish to fry in the world.

Regardless of whether or not this was illegal, legit, nefarious, whatever...Make no mistake. The killing of this lion has given anti-hunters more support and voice than any other event in the history of hunting. That's not good.
 
I think the whole thing is total hog wash and crazy. That could easily be several of us on this very forum going through this mess with all the threats and ruining our employment. I also think if African Lions roamed North America the only place we would see them is a zoo. My thoughts on that are with all the lion fatalities and attacks there would be pulic out cry to exterminate them off the land. At least Africa a third world country can realize there is a place for the animal in the wild still and not kill every last one of them. Can't say we as American's would do the same. As far as the guy taking the lion outside the park well point being it was outside the park just like deer/elk/buffalo/sheep/goats and wolves leave Jellystone and are takin every year. Did he violate any laws hell who knows just time will tell on that one. You also have to understand Africa does not have the American model of justice if it's like most third world countries it is very corrupt and untrust worthy. My two cents if it matters!:D
 
"Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange." - from a CNN news article
 
Gerald Martin said:
"Why are the Americans more concerned than us?" said Joseph Mabuwa, a 33-year-old father-of-two cleaning his car in the center of the capital. "We never hear them speak out when villagers are killed by lions and elephants in Hwange." - from a CNN news article
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Exactly!
 
This whole story is seems so similar to some other things that went in in MN its scary. A "Wildlife Biologist" in northern MN was collaring and naming bears and urging hunters not to shoot "his" collared bears. When a hunter would legally harvest one all sorts of stories would hit the news about hunters "luring" or hunting right near the property lines to intentionally kill "his" named wild bears. The Anti's where all over this. Eventually I think he lost his MN DNR funding. Capture a wild animal, put a collar on it, give it a name and now its horrible to kill it.

There are multiple sides to every story. I am just noticing the similarities.
 
We need a President that will stand up and say, we have raised a nation of pu$$ies. No more. Mandatory boxing, archery, and firearms training in all high schools. Girls too. Nuff said.
 
Thanks to those of you who have written thoughtful replies on the Cecil thread, I've read them all and take none of them lightly. Big Sky--I listened to Joe Rogan's podcast with Corey Knowlton (all 2.5 hours) and it was really informative.

I have a much more solid understanding of what big game hunting is over there, how it affects the surrounding communities, and how it affects wildlife populations. If any of you guys are interested, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A1D-f_meFY

Also really interesting to see Corey's behavior change over the course of the interview when he finally realized he didn't have to be defensive and that Rogan wasn't there to lambast him, as so many others had done in the past simply because they weren't willing or emotionally aware enough to actually hear his side of the story and consider that their own opinion might be incorrect.

It makes sense that the first thing that happens in uncomfortable situations is that people go directly to their defense mechanisms. But it's even more interesting to see the type of opportunities that exist once we get past them.
 
NKQualtieri said:
Thanks to those of you who have written thoughtful replies on the Cecil thread, I've read them all and take none of them lightly. Big Sky--I listened to Joe Rogan's podcast with Corey Knowlton (all 2.5 hours) and it was really informative.

I have a much more solid understanding of what big game hunting is over there, how it affects the surrounding communities, and how it affects wildlife populations. If any of you guys are interested, here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8A1D-f_meFY

Also really interesting to see Corey's behavior change over the course of the interview when he finally realized he didn't have to be defensive and that Rogan wasn't there to lambast him, as so many others had done in the past simply because they weren't willing or emotionally aware enough to actually hear his side of the story and consider that their own opinion might be incorrect.

It makes sense that the first thing that happens in uncomfortable situations is that people go directly to their defense mechanisms. But it's even more interesting to see the type of opportunities that exist once we get past them.
Click to expand...

I, for one, really appreciate your open-minded and critical thinking approach to this forum. So thank you!
 
RIP Cecil.

I guess the hundred's of thousands of game animal's illegally shot are of no consequence as compared to immediate media importance of Cecil.

It was a Wrong, mistaken or not, but done. Further media fervor only feeds the anti's agenda and does nothing to make honest corrections.
 
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