Can you out live point creep?

[buckhorn10]

I been building points for colorado elk unit 61 for 25 years hope to finally draw but maybe I wont , just keeps out of reach each year

 

[mdhunter]

I am about 15 years in applying in a whole bunch of states for a whole bunch of critters. I have drawn some good tags but not as many as people would think. I have drawn just as many NR "random" good tags from New Mexico (elk) and Idaho (moose) than point related great tags. The point creep certainly wont guarantee me any sheep or moose tags in the lower 48. If one of those is in my pocket I am a lucky fella...

 

[buckhorn10]

mdhunter I am from Md also and been doing the same thing for years too

 

[Jc2020]

I wish hunt talk would of been around when I was a kid. I didn’t until the past few years start hunting out of state and even know anything about point creep all my hunting was done in state with over the counter tags I’ve should of been build points long ago. Now at 35 there’s some Units is like to hunt for various species but at the current rate I doubt I’ll be able to.

 

[rocklockhunter]

Hind sight is 20-20 as they say, I wish I had started applying when I was younger. At this point, I don't think I'd ever draw before I would be physically unable to complete the hunt.

 

[buckhorn10]

For me I am 66 years old and also wish I had started when I was younger, thankfully I am in good health and still go for now but who knows what the future holds for any of us.

 

[ImBillT]

I am about 15 years in applying in a whole bunch of states for a whole bunch of critters. I have drawn some good tags but not as many as people would think. I have drawn just as many NR "random" good tags from New Mexico (elk) and Idaho (moose) than point related great tags. The point creep certainly wont guarantee me any sheep or moose tags in the lower 48. If one of those is in my pocket I am a lucky fella...

Your experience is in line with math. Points do not decrease the number of people applying for tags, and they do not increase the number of tags available. They simply skew the distribution of tags to those that have applied the most times. The above is the mathematical impact of point schemes, and as they mature, only retirees will be hunting.

Worse yet are the psychological effects of point schemes. In a random draw, someone who can’t or does not want to hunt a certain species this year does not apply. In a point scheme, they get their point. This artificially inflates apparent demand. Why is it fair for a person who does not actually want to hunt this year to buy his place in line beside a person who does want to hunt this year? Secondly, they cause you to choose between different perceived quality levels of hunt, because in most cases, you loose your points no matter what you draw. In a random drawing, you can put a great hunt as your first choice, and a crappy hunt as your second choice, and if you draw your second choice, nothing has been lost. With points in the other hand, in most cases if you draw, your points go away. Should I give up any chance I have of ever drawing a great tag so I can go hunting on a tag that might suck, or should I keep sitting on the couch and hoping that when I finally draw that great tag I’m still healthy and there wasn’t a drought? A random draw with 2-3 choices doesn’t leave you forced to make that choice.

 

[ImBillT]

For me I am 66 years old and also wish I had started when I was younger, thankfully I am in good health and still go for now but who knows what the future holds for any of us.

Your good health gives me hope! I’m MUCH younger and wonder if I will really be able to hike around for five more years.

 

[mdhunter]

mdhunter I am from Md also and been doing the same thing for years too

I have kids (now men) with 12 points in AZ, WY, and CO as NR for elk, deer, and antelope. Talk about no mans land...We are going to burn them together soon, have fun, and move on.

 

[buckhorn10]

sounds like a great time coming up, wish you all well and have a great hunt together

 

[JAG]

I'm sitting on 15 elk points in CO @ 40yo. I'm not expecting I'll ever draw one of the glory tags there...

Unit 61 might not be a glory tag, but it's awfully close.

 

[Trap]

Good topic and interesting. I never really thought about points being an Idaho (no points) resident but just applied here and in Montana. I started the multiple state thing probably at 49 which is ridiculous I’m 54 now. I have more tags with Idaho and usually otc Montana deer and elk than I can hunt sometimes. I hunt deer,elk,lions,bears, wolves, bobcat, coyotes and trap all over the counter in Idaho. This year I bought a second Idaho elk tag and have Montana deer and elk. That keeps me way busy almost year around. For me I am getting completely out of multiple state points. I will probably never get a “great”tag. I think many of us living in good western states get sucked into a grass is greener fomo mentality. I am out so I won’t be contributing to point creep!! The only thing that worries me is the tremendous population growth in the west reducing hunting opportunities for residents. Outside of that it’s stupid for me personally to apply in a bunch of states. I’m out! It’s a pyramid scheme

 

[JAG]

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View attachment 152902

Every time point creep comes up, I think about this chart. I know it's for AZ, but it is useful since it can apply to other states I "assume" it reflects a snapshot of interest in western state elk hunting applications. I empathize with baby boomers holding out for a glory tag. It makes me pause for everyone else that is younger than the boomer-bell curve.

The PEAK of this graph's curve shows the baby boomer population with tags in AZ is 58 at the time of publishing and the last of this group is 52. The age at which the majority of people give up on tags appears to be 72 y/o.

-From 1992 to 2012, there was a significant drop in numbers between both peaks.
-From 2012 to 2020, both peaks in tag numbers stayed the same.
-On the 2020 chart, the number of hunters aged 30-52 remains constant.

Question:
Will there be increases in tag availability as the curve moves off this chart starting in six years (now five) as the baby boomers age out of this graph?

 

[BuzzH]

Every time point creep comes up, I think about this chart. I know it's for AZ, but it is useful since it can apply to other states I "assume" it reflects a snapshot of interest in western state elk hunting applications. I empathize with baby boomers holding out for a glory tag. It makes me pause for everyone else that is younger than the boomer-bell curve.

The PEAK of this graph's curve shows the baby boomer population with tags in AZ is 58 at the time of publishing and the last of this group is 52. The age at which the majority of people give up on tags appears to be 72 y/o.

-From 1992 to 2012, there was a significant drop in numbers between both peaks.
-From 2012 to 2020, both peaks in tag numbers stayed the same.
-On the 2020 chart, the number of hunters aged 30-52 remains constant.

Question:
Will there be increases in tag availability as the curve moves off this chart starting in six years (now five) as the baby boomers age out of this graph?

I would say tag availability is going to decline over time. Habitat losses, improvements in technology, higher success rates will all equal less available tags. Just a fact, even though I don't like it.

 

[ccc23454]

If average age of tag holder begins to substantionaly increase will success rate for those tags decrease proportionaly possibly leading to increase in tags to meet the desired harvest for unit? Trying to find some way it may actually work but believing age can be a success limiting factor may actually help improve point system if states are quick enough to adjust quotas. I dont have any real skin in game, NV is my only long term app every other place i apply for lower point units or easy to draw tags.

 

[ID_to_NV2012]

No one lives forever, no one. But with advances in modern science and my high level income, it's not crazy to think I can live to be 245, maybe 300. Heck, I just read in the newspaper that they put a pig heart in some guy from Russia. Do you know what that means?

---Ricky Bobby

 

[hank4elk]

I'll outlive my points, I gave up on all of them.
I had 19 elk points in CA and never drew a cow tag,12 years ago.......
Had a dozen in UT and no tags to be found.

Drawn NM 8 of 12 years for elk as a resident,now. Hunted every year except last. Have buck & cow tags this year in the draw.

Have fun in the lottery of life.

 

[BuglinDrew]

No one lives forever, no one. But with advances in modern science and my high level income, it's not crazy to think I can live to be 245, maybe 300. Heck, I just read in the newspaper that they put a pig heart in some guy from Russia. Do you know what that means?

---Ricky Bobby