Biden vs Gun Owners

[noharleyyet]

I am certainly not worthy of putting my words in His mouth, but I feel it is safe to assume He would not be marching through Walmart with a locked-n-loaded AR in chinese knock off 5.11 kit.

To whom are you replying?

 

[SAJ-99]

First please stop being condescending...

Let's agree that my condescension was in response to yours and get back on track. You told us your life story and then try to explain the ills of the inner city, which I fully understand and have seen first hand, but what you don't tell us is what you are willing to accept to try to fix the problem. Universal background checks but can't be too restrictive- please define restrictive. Not for storage requirements? Ok are you willing to be held liable if someone breaks into your home and steals that gun that is unsecured and uses the next night in crime? Probably not. How about if your son (at 17) took the gun to school and started shooting people? I would guess that is a no too. What are you willing to sacrifice? You want an AR, how about a thorough licensing process to be able to own one? How about higher taxes to fund more police and social programs to try to fix the problems you listed? How about a national gun registry?

 

[VikingsGuy]

To whom are you replying?

To the bold text back up the thread.

 

[Bowhunter999]

My home is protected by 23.4lbs of rage and hate.

View attachment 174657

I am surprised that you even feel safe yourself with an animal that displays so much ferocity.......

 

[Pmacc60]

Let's agree that my condescension was in response to yours and get back on track. You told us your life story and then try to explain the ills of the inner city, which I fully understand and have seen first hand, but what you don't tell us is what you are willing to accept to try to fix the problem. Universal background checks but can't be too restrictive- please define restrictive. Not for storage requirements? Ok are you willing to be held liable if someone breaks into your home and steals that gun that is unsecured and uses the next night in crime? Probably not. How about if your son (at 17) took the gun to school and started shooting people? I would guess that is a no too. What are you willing to sacrifice? You want an AR, how about a thorough licensing process to be able to own one? How about higher taxes to fund more police and social programs to try to fix the problems you listed? How about a national gun registry?

First my point is I willing to obey the law, all I want is the laws to reflect fairness to us all. In this political climate I have no faith in law makers being fair.
Too restrictive , What are the parameters of the back ground check? Criminal and mental history , I’m ok with that.
Held liable because some one broke into my home ! Hard no on that. My friend had his safe stolen , the thieves carried it away.
my opinion.... in my home or vehicle secure!
I have four children and all are doing very well , they had rules in regards to guns in the house. They all respected that and none went to school and shot anyone. I think because I spent so much of my free time with them I would have noticed mental unstableness . Yes maybe I would feel liable !
No lic for AR citing second amendment ! The statistics say there is a very few of these guns used in crime and homicide
Back ground checks ok national registry is a hard no ! Although there is already one ! How can they trace who own the gun unless it’s registered ?
No higher taxes , let’s stop sending money oversees and work on our country first ! So reallocate funds to Americans first the rest of the world next .

 

[SAJ-99]

First my point is I willing to obey the law, all I want is the laws to reflect fairness to us all. In this political climate I have no faith in law makers being fair.
Too restrictive , What are the parameters of the back ground check? Criminal and mental history , I’m ok with that.
Held liable because some one broke into my home ! Hard no on that. My friend had his safe stolen , the thieves carried it away.
my opinion.... in my home or vehicle secure!
I have four children and all are doing very well , they had rules in regards to guns in the house. They all respected that and none went to school and shot anyone. I think because I spent so much of my free time with them I would have noticed mental unstableness . Yes maybe I would feel liable !
No lic for AR citing second amendment ! The statistics say there is a very few of these guns used in crime and homicide
Back ground checks ok national registry is a hard no ! Although there is already one ! How can they trace who own the gun unless it’s registered ?
No higher taxes , let’s stop sending money oversees and work on our country first ! So reallocate funds to Americans first the rest of the world next .

Pretty reasonable. No there isn’t a national gun registry database. Some guns are registered, like fully auto stuff, but most are not. It is a hodgepodge of state/local rules that restrict law enforcement’s ability to track a gun. The 1986 law prohibits a federal registry, and a lot of p records were destroyed in 2016 due to the expiration rules on keeping those documents. Anything left is paper and has be gone through manually.

complete agree that ARs aren’t the weapon of choice in most crimes. So can I assume you would be fine with a licensing requirement on handguns, which are used in most crimes and suicides?

your friend wouldn’t be liable if they stole the safe. It was secured properly in my hypothetical scenario.

I will leave your no higher taxes comment for a different thread. But it is revealing. It seems all Americans want the highest level of service but don’t want to pay for it.

 

[sigpros]

Dang I go buy the kids some sheep and shoot some coyotes and I have 6 pages of reading to catch up on

 

[3855WIN]

N.J. asks judge to force gun manufacturer Smith & Wesson to hand over documents on how it markets firearms

The state hired outside lawyers in 2019 to investigate how gun manufacturers advertise to residents.

www.nj.com

 

[Pmacc60]

I will leave your no higher taxes comment for a different thread. But it is revealing. It seems all Americans want the highest level of service but don’t want to pay for it.

If I paid higher taxes and it was used correctly I would be on board . It’s a pipe dream to believe the government will use the money in a orderly manner. Like I said my wife is the director of public housing in a Pa county. They were given a huge amount of Covid 19 money and it was squandered by the housing authority. There is $110,000 unaccounted for that was appropriated for rent relief that has not been paid out to tenets in section 8 . Just a small example of government .passing out tax payers money with no accountability .

I have answered your question with thought and opinions based on life experience . Every year my wife and I donate 5 figures to help the less fortunate. Some years we have done some good things some years we were scammed and walked away knowing our best intentions were used against us. So these day I am cautious in my decisions .

 

[shrapnel]

Gun control and the debate will never cease. Too many people keep blaming the gun. A gun is an inanimate object with no capability of shooting someone or committing a crime.

A pistol or rifle that was made in 1921 is no different today than it was when it was made. People in 1921 weren’t afraid of guns. 100 years later, society is afraid of itself and is blaming the guns.

So what changed? It certainly isn’t the gun.

I doubt that anyone would register and regulate lug wrenches if thieves were stealing tires off of cars throughout the neighborhood.

 

[VikingsGuy]

N.J. asks judge to force gun manufacturer Smith & Wesson to hand over documents on how it markets firearms

The state hired outside lawyers in 2019 to investigate how gun manufacturers advertise to residents.

www.nj.com

I HATE this! While, as Scalia and SCOTUS make clear, guns can be regulated to some extent, I do not think any constitutional right should be managed under consumer protection laws or tort law. This is just a back door to gun control without actually going through the proper democratic process.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I doubt that anyone would register and regulate lug wrenches if thieves were stealing tires off of cars throughout the neighborhood.

I wouldn't be so sure - look at formerly over-the-counter allergy meds. Now I need to show a driver's license that is tracked in a statewide registry and I can only buy one box a vist - so no stocking up for convienience. Photo ID entered into registry when I buy spray paint too. MN is now talking about making buying and selling ANY scrap metal or metal car parts illegal except with licensure due to a rash of catalytic converter thefts. Don't doubt that government will try to regulate anything if it so chooses.

 

[shrapnel]

Photo ID entered into registry when I buy spray paint too.

Banks around here don’t have checking accounts anymore, no one makes a check blank big enough to sign with spray paint.

 

[westbranch]

Gun control and the debate will never cease. Too many people keep blaming the gun. A gun is an inanimate object with no capability of shooting someone or committing a crime.

A pistol or rifle that was made in 1921 is no different today than it was when it was made. People in 1921 weren’t afraid of guns. 100 years later, society is afraid of itself and is blaming the guns.

So what changed? It certainly isn’t the gun.

I doubt that anyone would register and regulate lug wrenches if thieves were stealing tires off of cars throughout the neighborhood.

In the 1920s tons of towns, cities and states were making tons of laws to ban semi-automatic and fully automatic weapons. Then the NFA was passed in 1934. Sure you could buy rifles and shotguns through the mail and any hardware store, but people were afraid of semi-automatic guns at that time.

 

[406dn]

I HATE this! While, as Scalia and SCOTUS make clear, guns can be regulated to some extent, I do not think any constitutional right should be managed under consumer protection laws or tort law. This is just a back door to gun control without actually going through the proper democratic process.

Actually, I think this is a plan b when legislative efforts have been stymied. The Constitution effectively by design and practice, results in a legislative branch that moves slowly. The filibuster in the Senate gives the minority the tool needed to stop anything they feel compelled to oppose.

I'd say it is a red flag warning that if we don't find a way to resolve some of the differences in legislative law,,,the courts will find a solution.

 

[shrapnel]

In the 1920s tons of towns, cities and states were making tons of laws to ban semi-automatic and fully automatic weapons. Then the NFA was passed in 1934. Sure you could buy rifles and shotguns through the mail and any hardware store, but people were afraid of semi-automatic guns at that time.

Poor rational. If you want to dig deep enough you can find all sorts of gun regulations dating back 100’s of years. The fear of gangsters and machine guns was real, but not like the movies.

When I was in high school, we brought guns to school and even into the building to work in stocks and grips. Pickups in the parking lot had gun racks with rifles in them. The fact is: guns haven’t changed, people and their perception have.

 

[timber_hunter]

Poor rational. If you want to dig deep enough you can find all sorts of gun regulations dating back 100’s of years. The fear of gangsters and machine guns was real, but not like the movies.

When I was in high school, we brought guns to school and even into the building to work in stocks and grips. Pickups in the parking lot had gun racks with rifles in them. The fact is: guns haven’t changed, people and their perception have.

People's perceptions have changed for good reason, starting with Columbine.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Actually, I think this is a plan b when legislative efforts have been stymied. The Constitution effectively by design and practice, results in a legislative branch that moves slowly. The filibuster in the Senate gives the minority the tool needed to stop anything they feel compelled to oppose.

I'd say it is a red flag warning that if we don't find a way to resolve some of the differences in legislative law,,,the courts will find a solution.

I understand it is plan b - but that does not at all make it right. As you note, the constitution by design was supposed to move judiciously and to protect minority interests to some extent and to secure certain confirmed liberties. It is wholly inappropriate for the national trial lawyers association to in practice subvert all of that design by bastardizing tort law.

We agree, that the quickest path to NO guns is to continue to have our head in the sand. We need to start engaging with better ideas and less, "get the hell off my lawn" or we will not like the outcome.

 

[3855WIN]

If I learn nothing else from this thread, I’ve learned that I want VikingsGuy as my attorney if I get in a tight spot. (As long as he doesn’t bill me for hunttalk hours).

 

[westbranch]

Poor rational. If you want to dig deep enough you can find all sorts of gun regulations dating back 100’s of years. The fear of gangsters and machine guns was real, but not like the movies.

When I was in high school, we brought guns to school and even into the building to work in stocks and grips. Pickups in the parking lot had gun racks with rifles in them. The fact is: guns haven’t changed, people and their perception have.

Yeah, I would agree with it being poor rational. Saying that people weren't scared of guns in 1921 just isn't realistic. People definitely would have had tons of irrational fears in the 1920s, including semi-automatic weapons. And the media likely blew it out of proportion to play on those fears and sell more newspapers and keep people glued to their radios. One of the biggest shifts from the 1920s-1960s was likely related to young men coming home from war and being more familiar with automatic and semi-automatic weapons. This would have shifted even more by the mid 2000s.

How many people were bringing semi-automatic weapons to your high school in the 1920s? I agree 100% that perceptions of guns would have changed drastically from the 1920s to 60s or 70s. My dad graduated from high school in 1968 and frequently brought a shotgun to keep in his locker for grouse hunting with his friends after school. But my dad was never interested in owning an AR or similar style weapon overall he is probably against them.