And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.

[BigHornRam]

This. Sad to see that for many public lands advocacy is thinly veneered self-interest.

So true. I have never hunted Wyoming. I have applied and looked into hunting there over the years. Never worked out. As a non resident, I have enjoyed Wyoming public lands many many times. And I will continue to support Wyoming public land no matter how this legislation works out.

 

[rmyoung1]

This may or may not be what you’re getting at, but myself and a few others started an RMEF chapter. It costs me a ton of money each year to put a banquet together, as well as a lot of time. We’ve raised hundreds of thousands of dollars since we started, the VAST majority of that going to western states for habitat work. Honestly, when (not if) I’m priced out of this game, I’m done as a committee member. So is my hunting buddy. When we quit, the chapter likely will shut down. We’ll spend our time and money on projects that benefit Minnesota alone.

Posts like these are the ones that disturb my sleep at night. I don’t know the “right price” for an elk tag or what is a “fair” allocation of resident vs nonresident tags. But I wish the hunting community could learn to play nicely in the same sandbox. The “us vs them” mentality is a killer.
One of the things that lingered with me, when I listened to Mac discuss SB 143, was his apparent disbelief at the resident opposition since, in his mind, they were sweetening the deal for residents. He was counting on the resident disdain of NRs to help push the bill over the goal line in my opinion. And the residents didn’t take the bait. Made me proud. I think we need more of that.
I hope these states can find a NR/R price point and a tag allocation strategy that are acceptable and then tie ALL future increases to CPI for both the NRs and the Rs. Much of the fight is over bad optics. When someone’s already paying $800 and you limit their opportunity and raise their price 20%, it smells bad when your price stayed at $40. Messaging could be vastly improved with a more conscious we’re-in-this-together approach because we need nonresident interest, advocacy and, yes, participation.

 

[cur dog]

I predict transferable landowner tags and outfitter set asides, in the near future. It’s just a matter of time.

 

[BigHornRam]

Your the one playing dumb here if you believe that your going to keep garnering broad support for public lands from a segment of hunters who are increasingly getting the short end of the cost to benefit ratio
The old adage comes to mind. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

That abrasive non resident hunters like you stop hunting out West?

 

[JLS]

7250, and YES! I pointed that out but no one seems to care there will likely be more antlered tags next year than this year as written just have to be willing to hunt generals

Some of us realized that. That isn’t my issue.

 

[TOGIE]

things like a grass roots RMEF chapter dissipating because those specific NRs had to make the personal decision that the cost and ability to procure a tag to hunt out west exceeded what they could afford makes sense. and that is true problem to think about in the future of western hunting.

but honestly, if some guy decided he no longer cares about public lands or wildlife because he can't draw a wyoming tag as much as he used to...... frankly that guy was never a true advocate for wildlife and public lands to begin with, not a loss in my mind.

every state in the union offers hunting opportunities. residents need to take advantage of that. western hunting is not your only option. it may be one of the best options to DEVELOP a public lands advocate, but not the only option.

you don't need to take a kid elk or pronghorn hunting in the west to turn him into a public lands advocate. go otc spring turkey hunting in colorado, i guarantee you will drum up a gobble or two and you will have a gorgeous camping trip on public land and probably see some cow elk (i don't think i've ever not seen cow elk while spring turkey hunting). go javelina hunting in arizona. go bear hunting in colorado. go sage grouse hunting in wyoming. go blue grouse hunting damn near anywhere. hell go hike a fourteener in colorado and shoot a few ptarmigan, or shoot some marmots on a backpacking trip and eat it with fresh alpine lake trout.

for crying out loud, drive to wyoming and go wildlife watching with your kids - the wildlife are EVERYWHERE up there, then go fishing for trout and have a burger for dinner in a quaint western small town.

gosh, just go backpacking somewhere, it helps you appreciate the land and you'll probably see widlife along the way.

elk hunting, or even pronghorn hunting, in the west is not the only to develop young mind into a public lands and wildlife advocate, saying anything otherwise is a selfish and lazy cop out.

now that said, i do agree the trend towards exclusivity and ever increasing prices is concerning, and not helpful to the cause.

 

[Trial153]

That abrasive non resident hunters like you stop hunting out West?

The likes of me that forked over 45 million of Wyoming's 55 million in license sales. Yes.
And maybe the likes of me that will start thinking that Ted and Mike are right, maybe a whole bunch of that federal land should come off the the federal balance sheets and get shifted to the states.

 

[rwc101]

Your the one playing dumb here if you believe that your going to keep garnering broad support for public lands from a segment of hunters who are increasingly getting the short end of the cost to benefit ratio
The old adage comes to mind. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

Funny how you always change the subject and entirely ignore posts even you can't muster an overwrought, expletive laden, and outraged snarky response to. Hopefully you were more respectful in your email to Senator Hicks than you are to residents of this state who have already voiced their opinion to legislators that they want to keep hunting accessible to NRs.

 

[Zim]

I have always felt Wyoming was a screaming deal, for both the quality-to-price ratio and the generous allocation to non-residents. I hoped it would stay that way. But, I completely understand Wyoming residents wanting change. If I lived there, I would have been pressing for this change for decades, putting the state in close alignment with most the other western states, Colorado notwithstanding.

For my own selfish reasons, I hope things stay the same, though I think this bill will likely pass. And if it passes I completely understand why. And I will be thankful to the non-resident generosity Wyoming has shown for so many years. It would hypocrisy for me to live in a state that limits non-residents to 10%, then bitch about an effort in another state to enact the same 90/10 res/non-res split.

Thankfully, this would be a change to benefit resident hunters, not a private interest group. Absent the Montana/New Mexico flavor of reducing non-resident opportunity for the chosen few with political power, this change is easier to accept (although not my preference) and its motivation is easy to understand.

That said, a big part of why I've never found the Wyoming Wilderness law an issue worth losing sleep over has been the historical generosity Wyoming showed to non-residents. If this passes, my interest in seeing that Wilderness law changed, in some manner or by some mechanism, will surely increase.

I would also expect Colorado residents to look at Wyoming and start efforts to bring their non-resident generosity more in line with other western states. As western state populations grow, and have grown, at very high rates, changes in resident/non-resident allocations come as no surprise to me.

I agree with this. Except I believe the overall percentage of NR tags that are devoted to wealth tags would in fact go way up. Because I am assuming this legislation would not decrease the number of WY governor's tags? I don't know. Last I checked Wyoming was second only to corrupt Utah in these wealth tags. This change would selectively throw only NR DIYer Joe Hunters under the bus? But there's nothing new about that. Regardless, I gotta say I definitely played my NR cards right. Saw this coming from a mile away, and burned all my points in the last few years, while the going was good. Dumped sheep, burned & exited moose, burned elk, deer & pronghorn. Everything! Would be positioned quite well for opportunity type hunts with the low totals I have left remaining.

Now need to do the same thing in Colorado just in case. I expect residents there will use WY as an example to demand further slashing of their NR quotas as well. I'm very vulnerable there with 25 elk & lope, 14 deer. All at risk for being greatly devalued.

Still standing by to figure all this out!

 

[Deleted member 28227]

So, what it all boils down to is a small number of sheep, moose, goat and bison tags...6% less limited quota elk tags,

Misleading.

Currently 16% of limited elk tags go to NR. Shrinking it to 10% is not 6% less. Sure, 6% less of the total, but NR will be receiving 37.5% less tags than they had previously received.

NR get 25% of MSG tags so taking it to 10% means they will receive a 60% reduction in tags.

*Honestly I don't care about the limited stuff, take it to zero. It's general opportunity I care about... but also facts.

 

[BigHornRam]

The likes of me that forked over 45 million of Wyoming's 55 million in license sales. Yes.
And maybe the likes of me that will start thinking that Ted and Mike are right, maybe a whole bunch of that federal land should come off the the federal balance sheets and get shifted to the states.

Wow! You are full of yourself.

 

[Shangobango]

things like a grass roots RMEF chapter dissipating because those specific NRs had to make the personal decision that the cost and ability to procure a tag to hunt out west exceeded what they could afford makes sense. and that is true problem to think about in the future of western hunting.

but honestly, if some guy decided he no longer cares about public lands or wildlife because he can't draw a wyoming tag as much as he used to...... frankly that guy was never a true advocate for wildlife and public lands to begin with, not a loss in my mind.

every state in the union offers hunting opportunities. residents need to take advantage of that. western hunting is not your only option. it may be one of the best options to DEVELOP a public lands advocate, but not the only option.

you don't need to take a kid elk or pronghorn hunting in the west to turn him into a public lands advocate. go otc spring turkey hunting in colorado, i guarantee you will drum up a gobble or two and you will have a gorgeous camping trip on public land and probably see some cow elk (i don't think i've ever not seen cow elk while spring turkey hunting). go javelina hunting in arizona. go bear hunting in colorado. go sage grouse hunting in wyoming. go blue grouse hunting damn near anywhere. hell go hike a fourteener in colorado and shoot a few ptarmigan, or shoot some marmots on a backpacking trip and eat it with fresh alpine lake trout.

for crying out loud, drive to wyoming and go wildlife watching with your kids - the wildlife are EVERYWHERE up there, then go fishing for trout and have a burger for dinner in a quaint western small town.

gosh, just go backpacking somewhere, it helps you appreciate the land and you'll probably see widlife along the way.

elk hunting, or even pronghorn hunting, in the west is not the only to develop young mind into a public lands and wildlife advocate, saying anything otherwise is a selfish and lazy cop out.

now that said, i do agree the trend towards exclusivity and ever increasing prices is concerning, and not helpful to the cause.

You bring up valid points.

I can't speak for anyone else but I already care about public lands in the west and the critters that call them home and that isn't going to change.

My concern is with folks that are just starting out and get discouraged before they develop into advocates for those causes.

 

[rwc101]

With 5+million households making over $500,000/yr the western states could probably raise the prices 5x and still sell out. If the primary goal of these states is to raise funds there is plenty of room to move the pricing up. And while I am typically a fairly strong free-market person, I do believe public resources should not be sold only to the most well off - to make NR big game hunting "the sport of kings" is bad for democracy and bad for public lands stewardship in my opinion.

I know some very passionate hunters back east who are currently priced out by the gear & travel for a western hunt not to mention the tag/points. NR western hunting is already "the sport of the petite bourgeoisie." They just don't complain until they're the ones that get priced out. We'd all like it to be cheap and accessible.

 

[huntin24/7]

Not going to lie, it’s definitely a bummer knowing that it’s going to change our plans a lot in regards to units we’d planned to draw and when we’d be able to. However, I totally get it from a residents perspective though . I’d want more LE tags to draw as a resident if I lived there too. Plus I think Wyoming was the most generous to non res in the west. 10% would put them in line with most other western states. It sucks for the planning a lot of us have been doing, but all you can do is adapt. My 9 points possibly being burnt on a general WY elk tag would still be better than anywhere in MT aside from a handful of LE units.

 

[TOGIE]

You bring up valid points.

I can't speak for anyone else but I already care about public lands in the west and the critters that call them home and that isn't going to change.

My concern is with folks that are just starting out and get discouraged before they develop into advocates for those causes.

it's a tough balance. overall i get the desire for residents to want to have good opportunity, i have the same sentiment. with wyoming it's tough because i look at the state and ask: how bad has it been for you guys? missing out on a lot of tags up there?

but then i could ask the same thing of myself, i'm not missing out any tags in colorado. it's conflicting. my first animal was a wyoming pronghorn doe as a young adult onset hunter. though i had a very very strong passion for wyoming before i started hunting - having relatives in the state and having spent a large fraction of my childhood summers up there - but that successful doe and a wonderful experience with the warden was quite a good start for my first big game hunt. definitely helped instill that passion. but for me the passion was already a runaway train, it was inevitable.

but i realize, and now not every person is the same and backgrounds are different, but i had a mind ripe and fertile to be a big advocate of public land and wildilfe for not growing up hunting or in a hunting family. my dad and i spent our summers backpacking and eating trout cooked over backcountry fires growing up - honestly that's where it all started

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I know some very passionate hunters back east who are currently priced out by the gear & travel for a western hunt not to mention the tag/points. NR western hunting is already "the sport of the petite bourgeoisie." They just don't complain until they're the ones that get priced out. We'd all like it to be cheap and accessible.

I'm not real bougie....

just like a soupçon of bougie...

like....

like...

like a chukar hunter

 

[brownbear932008]

When did it become the state game agencies' mandate to rake in as much cash as possible?

I've seen the same in my state. I can remember COs driving the same vehicle for many years and had older but well maintained equipment such as boats. Now they get a new SUV every few years and the fleet of vessels look like the yacht club at the local harbor. Big government at it's best I guess. Hell they have decided to use sportsman funds to change their name about 3 times now in recent past. How much did that cost with all the related expenses. Most need to trim the fat IMO.

 

[rwc101]

You bring up valid points.

I can't speak for anyone else but I already care about public lands in the west and the critters that call them home and that isn't going to change.

My concern is with folks that are just starting out and get discouraged before they develop into advocates for those causes.

My apologies for the shitty, passive aggressive comment. I do respect people that view.

 

[rwc101]

I'm not real bougie....

just like a soupçon of bougie...

like....

like...

like a chukar hunter

You drink your LaCroix straight from the can like a true blue collar worker.

 

[PAhunter]

Coming in WY 2022 legislative session: 7250 3125 NR elk tags by statute. Because why should residents' opportunity be so hindered, and hunting pressure so high on general elk units??

Don't worry, it will fail in 2022 and 2023 because WYOGA will oppose it, so you'll still have a couple of years left to burn your points. Once the transferable landowner tags are approved in 2023, it'll sail right on through in '24.

You saw it here first...


FWIW, I'm resigned to the reality of moving goalposts in the game of NR western hunting. I may go less often, but I'm too smitten to break up.