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rwc101
Guest
Get a grip. There's tons of country I will never be able to hunt or even hike into with my bad hip and knees. I won't stop advocating for it.
And the Hits just keep on coming....WY now.
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Get a grip. There's tons of country I will never be able to hunt or even hike into with my bad hip and knees. I won't stop advocating for it.
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rwc101
Guest
I guess you missed the ones where he's work on guzzlers, worked with scientists on bighorn disease, etc.
So animals like deer, elk and sheep can drink. Got it.
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rwc101
Guest
Playing dumb isn't cute. You know damn well the odds of anyone, including Randy, drawing a bighorn tag for the area he worked on is slim to none.
Your the one playing dumb here if you believe that your going to keep garnering broad support for public lands from a segment of hunters who are increasingly getting the short end of the cost to benefit ratio
The old adage comes to mind. Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
SaskHunter
Well-known member
Will it really?
Going from 80/20 to 90/10 means you're adjusting the price of some tags to Special (25% of the 20% NR tags are already Special) for 10% of the tags sold at the NR Special prices. The other 10% goes from Regular NR prices to very low Resident prices. I really don't think this is about money. This will also cut in half the amount of tags issued to NR and cut the amount of NR $ spent in local economie.
Sure, Residents can decide what they want in terms of opportunities but I really don't believe this will help G&F or local economies.
If this was about money, they would raise all NR tags prices to Special pricing and implement a mandatory hunting license to purchase points like most states do.
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Deleted member 28227
Guest
If you say that a tag increase will cause you to stop advocating for public lands and conservation I totally agree.
but
I know there are a lot of folks from states without Elk or Mule Deer or Pronghorn that come to the west to hunt, and because of that experience become public land conservation advocates. If you grew up in VT you probably have no idea why public lands are important. You can freely trespass in VT as long as it's not posted. You hunt WY, have to navigate public/private boundaries and you develop a totally new understanding.
Hunting has changed my perspective about a lot of different issues over the years. Firearms, predator management, wildlife politics, etc.
Even if I never elk hunt again there are experiences that I will carry with me forever and will color how I vote and think.
I'm in, I'm addicted $680 or $1100 yeah I'm going to hunt WY and even if WY just shut out NR hunters, I'm going to vote for politicians that care about public lands.
But what about the first timers? Does our continual constriction of opportunity effect our ability to grow advocacy?
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rwc101
Guest
We're on the same page. My email to Hicks made the point that hunts for NR, especially accessible ones like pronghorn, create a love for the land, wildlife, and state that is hard to replace.
Bowhuntrben
Well-known member
The selfish part of me is upset by this, but I can understand why Wyoming would want to keep more opportunities for residents.
With decreasing value in NR preference points for MSG, my hope would be that eventually they would get rid of the preference option altogether and go random. I’m sure it’s not likely, but one can hope. Perhaps the future will look even brighter for residents if they don’t go random since $150 for a point every year for a high likelihood of never drawing a tag as a NR will likely be hard for someone just getting into the game to justify. Or maybe it’s not a game changer at this point? I’ve already concluded that I’ll invest my money elsewhere for my kids in terms of MSG.
If my kids do grow up to enjoy hunting, I’ll just have to encourage them to move to a western state if that type of hunting is something they desire. Maybe Alaska so they can take me sheep hunting...
I’m just thankful that I still have options for hunting the west and that there are many other great opportunities out there that I can enjoy outside of hunting. I hope these opportunities continue to exist for future generations.
With decreasing value in NR preference points for MSG, my hope would be that eventually they would get rid of the preference option altogether and go random. I’m sure it’s not likely, but one can hope. Perhaps the future will look even brighter for residents if they don’t go random since $150 for a point every year for a high likelihood of never drawing a tag as a NR will likely be hard for someone just getting into the game to justify. Or maybe it’s not a game changer at this point? I’ve already concluded that I’ll invest my money elsewhere for my kids in terms of MSG.
If my kids do grow up to enjoy hunting, I’ll just have to encourage them to move to a western state if that type of hunting is something they desire. Maybe Alaska so they can take me sheep hunting...
I’m just thankful that I still have options for hunting the west and that there are many other great opportunities out there that I can enjoy outside of hunting. I hope these opportunities continue to exist for future generations.
Shangobango
Well-known member
That seems to be the mantra of the times.
SaskHunter
Well-known member
That's me! Drawing an antelope tag in Canada takes 10 years or a big wad of cash. I was extremely intrigued by those wild looking criter so a few years ago I applied in Wyoming and went on my first American public land hunt. I've been hooked and pouring my hard earned Canadian dollars into now 8 American states for elk, deer and antelope. I spend more money, time and effort with regard to hunting abroad than I dp at home. Simply put, I've fallen in love with the American West (chill out, Sask and I have an open relationship), its public lands and the hunting.
Like most here, I'm on the "intense" side of the hunting spectrum but my own adventures have intrigued others here at home and I now know many friends and acquaintances who are now applying in Wyoming because they got curious and interested in what I was doing.
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Deleted member 28227
Guest
Only WY hunt's I've been on so far, one buck and one doe pronghorn.
Those reduced price tags especially are a great gateway drug to public land appreciation.
Shangobango
Well-known member
My stance is not solely out of self interest.
If people think that they can exclude other people from an activity and still expect the excluded groups to be as engaged in protecting that activity as they would be if they could participate i think they are delusional.
This is not about Wyoming's right to do this. They have the right.
It isn't even about the money for me personally, though I see how that could be and issue for some.
It is about a larger trend toward exclusion that I think is bad for the future of hunting and conservation.
Happy hunting. While it lasts...
stealthy_bowman
Well-known member
Maybe my question was already addressed in the many pages of this thread, sorry in advance if I missed it. Am I understanding correctly that the overall # of NR elk tags will actually remain unchanged at 7500, however the LE allotment will go down, meaning that GEN tags allocations will increase? Also, I assume this eliminates the special draw?
7250, and YES! I pointed that out but no one seems to care there will likely be more antlered tags next year than this year as written just have to be willing to hunt generals
stealthy_bowman
Well-known member
Thanks, that's a positive. Might actually make it easier to draw a GEN tag I suppose and the increased NR presence on GEN units should, in theory, be offset by the resident hunters drawing additional LE units than in the past.
Shangobango
Well-known member
Touche'.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Lets really look at that "short end of the stick" you and a lot of others are claiming you're going to get.
NR's will STILL receive 7,250 full price elk tags in the initial draw. Total "lose" of full price elk tags in the initial draw...ZERO
NR's will STILL receive 100% of the allocation of NR deer licenses for every region wide tag in the State of Wyoming, including regions G and H where the absolute best deer hunting in the state exists. "loss" of absolutely not a single region wide deer tag. Yeah, NR's will lose 10% of limited quota deer licenses, that a vast majority are not even as good of hunting as G and H.
NR's will still receive over 50% of the pronghorn tags in Wyoming that they currently get. Sure, it may take a few more years to draw the best areas that will "lose" 10% of the tags. But, residents like me that apply for 3 choices, always get a tag somewhere. That will free up a tag in a mid-tier unit for a NR that I would normally draw in a mid-tier unit. I feel that living in Wyoming, suffering through the chit winters, attending meetings, advocating for wildlife and watching pronghorn huddled up beside a snow-fence "getting out" of 65 MPH winds in the dead of winter sort of entitles me to more opportunity at the best tags here. So, no "loss" of opportunity, NR's already get over 50% of the pronghorn tags...why the bitching about being limited to 10% in the initial draw?
Sheep, moose, goat, and bison...yep, NR's are going to lose a small handful of tags for those species. Well, tough...I'm limited to 10% or LESS of those tags in every single state I apply for outside of Wyoming as a NR. Further, in 1978 Wyoming was issuing 500 NR moose permits and 1,500 to residents...that's more than they issue total to NR and R combined NOW. Meaning Resident opportunity at moose licenses has cratered by 1,200+ tags per year. Sheep tags going to Residents has declined by over 150 licenses since 1978. Tell me in any way, shape or form, why when Residents have suffered a loss of 1,200 moose permits and over 150 sheep permits, you feel that Residents shouldn't be currently getting 90% of the available tags for those species? Goat and Bison should also be 90-10 split as well....we don't have many of either and 90/10 would be no different than what other States issue to NR's. Plus, the argument of "creating public land advocates" does not apply to MSGB tags...those are specialty tags and you don't create or introduce new hunters to the sport with those species.
So, what it all boils down to is a small number of sheep, moose, goat and bison tags...6% less limited quota elk tags, and a handful of LQ deer tags in areas not as good as the deer hunting in G and H, and 10% of the better pronghorn areas (but NR's still getting over 50% of the total pronghorn tags).
Just to make sure I cover the whole thing...and a 1/10th of 1% fee increase over the cost to hunt as a NR in 1979 when comparing NR license fees to median household income in 1979 to 2021.
Sounds like a lot of crying over not much to me...
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VikingsGuy
Well-known member
With 5+million households making over $500,000/yr the western states could probably raise the prices 5x and still sell out. If the primary goal of these states is to raise funds there is plenty of room to move the pricing up. And while I am typically a fairly strong free-market person, I do believe public resources should not be sold only to the most well off - to make NR big game hunting "the sport of kings" is bad for democracy and bad for public lands stewardship in my opinion.
