American Prairie - 88,000 acres of access

In one of my earlier posts I made this statement, “Not misinformed. I know more & different information than you do.”

I mis-spoke with that statement. In fact I wasn’t informed enough and had been given bits and pieces of mis-information twisted together to create a narrative that was not correct. I cannot say that I know more or different information than anyone else within this forum and again, I mis-spoke.

Sooo…..
After hours and hours of research on both parties along with sifting through endless amounts of documents I have learned A LOT more! I find that I can confidently say I am informed enough now to back my stance.

I fully support the UPOM and do not support APR. FULL STOP!

I am surprised by a few things.

1. APR has the backing of some of the top 10 wealthiest families and individuals in the world. From an investing standpoint point thought: Why would the average, middle income person donate any money at all to APR? There is no need to! The wealthy will do it even if you don’t. Stop donating and ride the gravy train.

2. Financial transparency is really, really bad or non-existence on APR’s side. They in fact say that their donor list is private. Huge red flag in my book!! Especially when they are shown to have donations come from over 40 countries!

3. Why does APR not have to pay income tax in Montana? Glamping excursions are super expensive (only for the oozing wealthy to afford) and they don’t have to pay taxes on that money? You and I cannot do that.

4. APR gives out an annual Ken Burns American Heritage Prize in New York to a person they think that has done something special in the APR eyes.

Why New York if the actual trophy represents Montana land grab profits? Shouldn’t they celebrate it in the communities that they have started buying land up in? The trophy is simply a representation of Montana as a “thing” a wealthy person in New York or a foreign country can sit on their mantle and brag amongst their groups as their accomplishment conquest.

I did reach out to UPOM and had a nice email exchange. What I learned was way different than what a lot of you have described or snarkliy commented on here about them. I would encourage all of you to reach out and get to know them better if you really want to be informed correctly. You can reach out and talk to a representative at the Montana Legislature.

Here is my synopsis for what it is worth:

I have never, ever hunted on APR property. I will never, ever donate to APR BUT I will explore their properties in my selfish pursuit and most favorite thing to do, hunt. Here is why.

The Wolf (APR) isn’t just at the door of land grabbing in Montana. The Wolf (APR) has breached the door of the house of Montana, scaled the stairs 2 at a time to the bedrooms of our children to devour their Montana futures. Acquiring 460,000 acres and counting is a mind blowing number. I don’t see it stopping and I realistically don’t think we can stop it. It is not a matter of “IF” but rather a matter of “WHEN” our children, grand children, great grandchildren will no longer have these opportunities because of the Great American Serengeti Experiment. Seems like the Hunger Games. This is sad to me.

I appreciate “access” just as much as the next hunter and cannot afford a lot of hunts but I can use the rich in this case to allow for me to have those hunts. Call me a hypocrite or a realist or whatever but it is mine to decide & act.

The heart of my 4th generation Montana values fall with UPOM and their cause.

There is a lot more that I have to say and have found out in my research but I know how to read the room of this thread. The “jackals” of HT are circling, drooling, screaming and ready to unleash so…….. Let’s do this!
 
Wild Bill said:
I just slogged throw 119 posts in this thread in one sitting and still no secrets being divulged.
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Welcome to Hunt Talk!
 
Raisin Bran said:
In one of my earlier posts I made this statement, “Not misinformed. I know more & different information than you do.”

I mis-spoke with that statement. In fact I wasn’t informed enough and had been given bits and pieces of mis-information twisted together to create a narrative that was not correct. I cannot say that I know more or different information than anyone else within this forum and again, I mis-spoke.

Sooo…..
After hours and hours of research on both parties along with sifting through endless amounts of documents I have learned A LOT more! I find that I can confidently say I am informed enough now to back my stance.

I fully support the UPOM and do not support APR. FULL STOP!

I am surprised by a few things.

1. APR has the backing of some of the top 10 wealthiest families and individuals in the world. From an investing standpoint point thought: Why would the average, middle income person donate any money at all to APR? There is no need to! The wealthy will do it even if you don’t. Stop donating and ride the gravy train.

2. Financial transparency is really, really bad or non-existence on APR’s side. They in fact say that their donor list is private. Huge red flag in my book!! Especially when they are shown to have donations come from over 40 countries!

3. Why does APR not have to pay income tax in Montana? Glamping excursions are super expensive (only for the oozing wealthy to afford) and they don’t have to pay taxes on that money? You and I cannot do that.

4. APR gives out an annual Ken Burns American Heritage Prize in New York to a person they think that has done something special in the APR eyes.

Why New York if the actual trophy represents Montana land grab profits? Shouldn’t they celebrate it in the communities that they have started buying land up in? The trophy is simply a representation of Montana as a “thing” a wealthy person in New York or a foreign country can sit on their mantle and brag amongst their groups as their accomplishment conquest.

I did reach out to UPOM and had a nice email exchange. What I learned was way different than what a lot of you have described or snarkliy commented on here about them. I would encourage all of you to reach out and get to know them better if you really want to be informed correctly. You can reach out and talk to a representative at the Montana Legislature.

Here is my synopsis for what it is worth:

I have never, ever hunted on APR property. I will never, ever donate to APR BUT I will explore their properties in my selfish pursuit and most favorite thing to do, hunt. Here is why.

The Wolf (APR) isn’t just at the door of land grabbing in Montana. The Wolf (APR) has breached the door of the house of Montana, scaled the stairs 2 at a time to the bedrooms of our children to devour their Montana futures. Acquiring 460,000 acres and counting is a mind blowing number. I don’t see it stopping and I realistically don’t think we can stop it. It is not a matter of “IF” but rather a matter of “WHEN” our children, grand children, great grandchildren will no longer have these opportunities because of the Great American Serengeti Experiment. Seems like the Hunger Games. This is sad to me.

I appreciate “access” just as much as the next hunter and cannot afford a lot of hunts but I can use the rich in this case to allow for me to have those hunts. Call me a hypocrite or a realist or whatever but it is mine to decide & act.

The heart of my 4th generation Montana values fall with UPOM and their cause.

There is a lot more that I have to say and have found out in my research but I know how to read the room of this thread. The “jackals” of HT are circling, drooling, screaming and ready to unleash so…….. Let’s do this!
Click to expand...
1. Wealthy people arent inherently evil. I guess im still "old school" republican to believe that.
2. No org thats doing controversial work (conservation, i guess?) wants to knee cap future donations by political hacks gaining a list of "boogeymen" who donated to it.
3. Non - profits dont pay income tax. Color me shocked thats news to you.
4. No idea how an award/prize is worth scorn - but it checks out with rest of your logic.

Im curious - what is the worst that could happen? What would they - lobby for all out war on elk or something? Perhaps the "worst" thing theyd do idealogically would be take some of the existing agriculture out of production - but thats hardly unique to billionare ranch owners.

Anyway, raisin bran cereal always gave me the shits and now i get why.
 
Raisin Bran said:
The Wolf (APR) isn’t just at the door of land grabbing in Montana. The Wolf (APR) has breached the door of the house of Montana, scaled the stairs 2 at a time to the bedrooms of our children to devour their Montana futures. Acquiring 460,000 acres and counting is a mind blowing number. I don’t see it stopping and I realistically don’t think we can stop it. It is not a matter of “IF” but rather a matter of “WHEN” our children, grand children, great grandchildren will no longer have these opportunities because of the Great American Serengeti Experiment. Seems like the Hunger Games. This is sad to me.

I appreciate “access” just as much as the next hunter and cannot afford a lot of hunts but I can use the rich in this case to allow for me to have those hunts. Call me a hypocrite or a realist or whatever but it is mine to decide & act.

The heart of my 4th generation Montana values fall with UPOM and their cause.

There is a lot more that I have to say and have found out in my research but I know how to read the room of this thread. The “jackals” of HT are circling, drooling, screaming and ready to unleash so…….. Let’s do this!
Click to expand...
Your numbers are incorrect. From the AP website…

Since 2004, we have completed 43 transactions to build our habitat base of 526,959 acres. Of that total, 140,443 acres are private lands owned by American Prairie and 386,516 acres are leased public lands (federal and state).

They own 140,443 acres. There are many individuals in MT and throughout the west that own more than that. And those privately owned ranches most likely don’t allow public access.
 
Raisin Bran said:
In one of my earlier posts I made this statement, “Not misinformed. I know more & different information than you do.”

I mis-spoke with that statement. In fact I wasn’t informed enough and had been given bits and pieces of mis-information twisted together to create a narrative that was not correct. I cannot say that I know more or different information than anyone else within this forum and again, I mis-spoke.

Sooo…..
After hours and hours of research on both parties along with sifting through endless amounts of documents I have learned A LOT more! I find that I can confidently say I am informed enough now to back my stance.

I fully support the UPOM and do not support APR. FULL STOP!

I am surprised by a few things.

1. APR has the backing of some of the top 10 wealthiest families and individuals in the world. From an investing standpoint point thought: Why would the average, middle income person donate any money at all to APR? There is no need to! The wealthy will do it even if you don’t. Stop donating and ride the gravy train.

2. Financial transparency is really, really bad or non-existence on APR’s side. They in fact say that their donor list is private. Huge red flag in my book!! Especially when they are shown to have donations come from over 40 countries!

3. Why does APR not have to pay income tax in Montana? Glamping excursions are super expensive (only for the oozing wealthy to afford) and they don’t have to pay taxes on that money? You and I cannot do that.

4. APR gives out an annual Ken Burns American Heritage Prize in New York to a person they think that has done something special in the APR eyes.

Why New York if the actual trophy represents Montana land grab profits? Shouldn’t they celebrate it in the communities that they have started buying land up in? The trophy is simply a representation of Montana as a “thing” a wealthy person in New York or a foreign country can sit on their mantle and brag amongst their groups as their accomplishment conquest.

I did reach out to UPOM and had a nice email exchange. What I learned was way different than what a lot of you have described or snarkliy commented on here about them. I would encourage all of you to reach out and get to know them better if you really want to be informed correctly. You can reach out and talk to a representative at the Montana Legislature.

Here is my synopsis for what it is worth:

I have never, ever hunted on APR property. I will never, ever donate to APR BUT I will explore their properties in my selfish pursuit and most favorite thing to do, hunt. Here is why.

The Wolf (APR) isn’t just at the door of land grabbing in Montana. The Wolf (APR) has breached the door of the house of Montana, scaled the stairs 2 at a time to the bedrooms of our children to devour their Montana futures. Acquiring 460,000 acres and counting is a mind blowing number. I don’t see it stopping and I realistically don’t think we can stop it. It is not a matter of “IF” but rather a matter of “WHEN” our children, grand children, great grandchildren will no longer have these opportunities because of the Great American Serengeti Experiment. Seems like the Hunger Games. This is sad to me.

I appreciate “access” just as much as the next hunter and cannot afford a lot of hunts but I can use the rich in this case to allow for me to have those hunts. Call me a hypocrite or a realist or whatever but it is mine to decide & act.

The heart of my 4th generation Montana values fall with UPOM and their cause.

There is a lot more that I have to say and have found out in my research but I know how to read the room of this thread. The “jackals” of HT are circling, drooling, screaming and ready to unleash so…….. Let’s do this!
Click to expand...
'Applaud you for obviously doing research, thinking about it, and for finally standing up. There's much to unpack in what you have expressed above. Some of it is blatantly false and expresses a lack of knowledge and understanding regarding both UPOM and AP. But as you say "let's do this" and it may be helpful for us here on HT to delve into some of the deeper dynamics and facts.
But just to get started, you have missed that the outdoor recreation activities for the most part are inexpensive. Having camped there I can verify the relative low costs. Even the Yurt rentals are reasonable. You may be referring to costs of some educational programs which seem to be consistent with those found in Yellowstone Park and elsewhere having to do with conservation topics. Many activities are free of charge (ie; hiking, outback tent camping, hunting, biking, and on and on.) But even if more expensive, the costs of the research and educational programs which are beneficial to all are high, as are organization operational costs. But the big one you are so obviously oblivious about is that this is a nonprofit which does not pay income tax.

As far as your middle paragraph about result of a vision to "devour the future" of Montana children, it speaks more of someone negatively delusional and having never looked into the goals and mission of AP. Like you, my love of Montana stretches through generations and back to both sets of grandparents homesteading the Big Flat. I have travelled extensively across the state from Garfield Peak to Brush Lake, from Alzada to the Yaak and studied Montana and her history all my days and I see AP as a bright star shining untold natural outdoor adventure and learning for my grandkids and their grandkids ... as well as for wildlife which is everyday losing ground, literally! Turners Flying D Ranch conservation easement and others as mentioned here briefly are somewhat similar in that they preserve some of the open lands and Montana wildlife habitat that are the very values which make Montana the Treasure State. God bless him and his money. I applaud the AP for attracting enough money from the entire globe to be able to save some of Montana treasure. Big things require big bucks! Thank them, some of whom may merely see photos of what they have supported.

The "Montana land grab" phrase is right out of the rhetoric of UPOM in criticizing neighbors for exercizing their basic property right of selling to realize a retirement dream and in some cases, passing on hard earned dirt asset wealth to children not interested in pulling a calf.

Likely others will chime in to agree with some of what you have expressed and others will further refute your misstatements and misconceptions, but ok, let's do this.
 
Raisin Bran said:
In one of my earlier posts I made this statement, “Not misinformed. I know more & different information than you do.”

I mis-spoke with that statement. In fact I wasn’t informed enough and had been given bits and pieces of mis-information twisted together to create a narrative that was not correct. I cannot say that I know more or different information than anyone else within this forum and again, I mis-spoke.

Sooo…..
After hours and hours of research on both parties along with sifting through endless amounts of documents I have learned A LOT more! I find that I can confidently say I am informed enough now to back my stance.

I fully support the UPOM and do not support APR. FULL STOP!

I am surprised by a few things.

1. APR has the backing of some of the top 10 wealthiest families and individuals in the world. From an investing standpoint point thought: Why would the average, middle income person donate any money at all to APR? There is no need to! The wealthy will do it even if you don’t. Stop donating and ride the gravy train.

2. Financial transparency is really, really bad or non-existence on APR’s side. They in fact say that their donor list is private. Huge red flag in my book!! Especially when they are shown to have donations come from over 40 countries!

3. Why does APR not have to pay income tax in Montana? Glamping excursions are super expensive (only for the oozing wealthy to afford) and they don’t have to pay taxes on that money? You and I cannot do that.

4. APR gives out an annual Ken Burns American Heritage Prize in New York to a person they think that has done something special in the APR eyes.

Why New York if the actual trophy represents Montana land grab profits? Shouldn’t they celebrate it in the communities that they have started buying land up in? The trophy is simply a representation of Montana as a “thing” a wealthy person in New York or a foreign country can sit on their mantle and brag amongst their groups as their accomplishment conquest.

I did reach out to UPOM and had a nice email exchange. What I learned was way different than what a lot of you have described or snarkliy commented on here about them. I would encourage all of you to reach out and get to know them better if you really want to be informed correctly. You can reach out and talk to a representative at the Montana Legislature.

Here is my synopsis for what it is worth:

I have never, ever hunted on APR property. I will never, ever donate to APR BUT I will explore their properties in my selfish pursuit and most favorite thing to do, hunt. Here is why.

The Wolf (APR) isn’t just at the door of land grabbing in Montana. The Wolf (APR) has breached the door of the house of Montana, scaled the stairs 2 at a time to the bedrooms of our children to devour their Montana futures. Acquiring 460,000 acres and counting is a mind blowing number. I don’t see it stopping and I realistically don’t think we can stop it. It is not a matter of “IF” but rather a matter of “WHEN” our children, grand children, great grandchildren will no longer have these opportunities because of the Great American Serengeti Experiment. Seems like the Hunger Games. This is sad to me.

I appreciate “access” just as much as the next hunter and cannot afford a lot of hunts but I can use the rich in this case to allow for me to have those hunts. Call me a hypocrite or a realist or whatever but it is mine to decide & act.

The heart of my 4th generation Montana values fall with UPOM and their cause.

There is a lot more that I have to say and have found out in my research but I know how to read the room of this thread. The “jackals” of HT are circling, drooling, screaming and ready to unleash so…….. Let’s do this!
Click to expand...
Thank you, Mr. hypocrisy.
 
Straight Arrow said:
'Applaud you for obviously doing research, thinking about it, and for finally standing up. There's much to unpack in what you have expressed above. Some of it is blatantly false and expresses a lack of knowledge and understanding regarding both UPOM and AP. But as you say "let's do this" and it may be helpful for us here on HT to delve into some of the deeper dynamics and facts.
But just to get started, you have missed that the outdoor recreation activities for the most part are inexpensive. Having camped there I can verify the relative low costs. Even the Yurt rentals are reasonable. You may be referring to costs of some educational programs which seem to be consistent with those found in Yellowstone Park and elsewhere having to do with conservation topics. Many activities are free of charge (ie; hiking, outback tent camping, hunting, biking, and on and on.) But even if more expensive, the costs of the research and educational programs which are beneficial to all are high, as are organization operational costs. But the big one you are so obviously oblivious about is that this is a nonprofit which does not pay income tax.

As far as your middle paragraph about result of a vision to "devour the future" of Montana children, it speaks more of someone negatively delusional and having never looked into the goals and mission of AP. Like you, my love of Montana stretches through generations and back to both sets of grandparents homesteading the Big Flat. I have travelled extensively across the state from Garfield Peak to Brush Lake, from Alzada to the Yaak and studied Montana and her history all my days and I see AP as a bright star shining untold natural outdoor adventure and learning for my grandkids and their grandkids ... as well as for wildlife which is everyday losing ground, literally! Turners Flying D Ranch conservation easement and others as mentioned here briefly are somewhat similar in that they preserve some of the open lands and Montana wildlife habitat that are the very values which make Montana the Treasure State. God bless him and his money. I applaud the AP for attracting enough money from the entire globe to be able to save some of Montana treasure. Big things require big bucks! Thank them, some of whom may merely see photos of what they have supported.

The "Montana land grab" phrase is right out of the rhetoric of UPOM in criticizing neighbors for exercizing their basic property right of selling to realize a retirement dream and in some cases, passing on hard earned dirt asset wealth to children not interested in pulling a calf.

Likely others will chime in to agree with some of what you have expressed and others will further refute your misstatements and misconceptions, but ok, let's do this.
Click to expand...
Once again “just like a dog will eat its own vomit”, here you are.
 
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