Hunt Quietly Podcast 84: Q & A

[atlas]

 

[rjthehunter]

Ask him what happened to his website

 

[atlas]

Ask him what happened to his website

Someone is working a new less shitty site

 

[Chiles_de_cazador]

Matt is barking up the right tree, the hunting industry has really hurt a lot of hunting opportunities. And nobody should have the right to kill a dozen or even a half dozen animals a year unless you have a really large family and can use all the extra meat. I haven’t listened to his podcast in a while but have enjoyed them. I like it that he doesn’t pussyfoot around difficult topics and speaks his mind. Preston

Hahahahahaha

 

[Joseph Peterson]

-It was asked of him what would look like success to him if his “movement” were successful. One thing he mentioned that would be good would be that: It should be widely acknowledged that hiring an outfitter to take you out and show you a deer or elk that you then shoot is in no way an accomplishment. I couldn’t agree more.

I have guided people who for them just getting to the camp 20+ miles from the trailhead was a great personal accomplishment. Both you and Matt are out of line on this topic. In the 35 years I have guided, 28 in designated wilderness areas, many of the folks paying for the hunt were much more experienced, successful and accomplished as hunters than me. I provided the stock, camp, provision and safety they didn't have the skills, time or equipment for while they were fully capable of hunting on their own if needed. On the other hand many folks were just starting out and had no mentors to learn with or from so paid for that experience. They then went on to be very successful on their own. They booked a guided hunt to learn how to do it- no issue there.

Yes, I have guided those who just wanted to add said animal to the list for their super slam or some such BS but they were more rare. I told many people who would tire kick outfitters at sport shows we attended if the only thing that would make a hunt a success for you was to kill the animal you are interested in, go with someone else. If you want to learn about the wilderness, experience a true backcountry horseback traditional hunt and enjoy the outdoors whether or not you pulled a trigger, I am your guy.

To lump outfitters into one picture is as valid as throwing all of any group into the same heading. Bowhunters are pompous asses. Rifle hunters are sniping lazy bastards. People on Hunt Talk know what the heck they are talking about.

You need well trained experienced stock, special equipment, skill and days of extra work to both get into and out of many areas outfitters service. The pointing a finger at an animal is not even 1% of what we do. How many people have the ability to do this on their own?

 

[The Hedgehog]

Wilderness outfitters are likely the minority these days. Guided hunts on ranches and leases prevail, and I suspect those clients are the ones in Rinella's crosshairs.

 

[Nameless Range]

I have guided people who for them just getting to the camp 20+ miles from the trailhead was a great personal accomplishment. Both you and Matt are out of line on this topic. In the 35 years I have guided, 28 in designated wilderness areas, many of the folks paying for the hunt were much more experienced, successful and accomplished as hunters than me. I provided the stock, camp, provision and safety they didn't have the skills, time or equipment for while they were fully capable of hunting on their own if needed. On the other hand many folks were just starting out and had no mentors to learn with or from so paid for that experience. They then went on to be very successful on their own. They booked a guided hunt to learn how to do it- no issue there.

Yes, I have guided those who just wanted to add said animal to the list for their super slam or some such BS but they were more rare. I told many people who would tire kick outfitters at sport shows we attended if the only thing that would make a hunt a success for you was to kill the animal you are interested in, go with someone else. If you want to learn about the wilderness, experience a true backcountry horseback traditional hunt and enjoy the outdoors whether or not you pulled a trigger, I am your guy.

To lump outfitters into one picture is as valid as throwing all of any group into the same heading. Bowhunters are pompous asses. Rifle hunters are sniping lazy bastards. People on Hunt Talk know what the heck they are talking about.

You need well trained experienced stock, special equipment, skill and days of extra work to both get into and out of many areas outfitters service. The pointing a finger at an animal is not even 1% of what we do. How many people have the ability to do this on their own?
View attachment 330236

That's a fair point. There are many many great hunters on here and elsewhere - far far better hunters than me - who pay people to take them hunting. That said, I do see quite the difference between someone who begins and ends a hunt themselves, and someone who is a client. Admittedly, there's no doubt a continuum in terms of skills and guts needed and the experience itself.

As Hedgehog mentions above, Matt is likely, and I am certainly, referring to the vast majority of guided hunts - those I am most familiar with in Montana - which do not involve scouting, finding the animals yourself, taking the animal on your own volition and decision, and bringing it out of the hills to your freezer yourself. I'm definitely not anti-outfitting, though the comment of mine that you quoted could easily be interpreted as such.

 

[Elky Welky]

That's a fair point. There are many many great hunters on here and elsewhere - far far better hunters than me - who pay people to take them hunting. That said, I do see quite the difference between someone who begins and ends a hunt themselves, and someone who is a client. Admittedly, there's no doubt a continuum in terms of skills and guts needed and the experience itself.

As Hedgehog mentions above, Matt is likely, and I am certainly, referring to the vast majority of guided hunts - those I am most familiar with in Montana - which do not involve scouting, finding the animals yourself, taking the animal on your own volition and decision, and bringing it out of the hills to your freezer yourself. I'm definitely not anti-outfitting, though the comment of mine that you quoted could easily be interpreted as such.

It's definitely a fuzzy line though. I've been on a number of guided deep sea fishing trips, and I never thought of myself as a client and not a fisherman. I also worked as a deckhand for some wealthy people, I baited the hooks, took people to the spots, even hooked the fish and handed them the rods, netted the fish, did the processing after, etc. and I didn't think less of the guests (for that reason, some of them I thought less of for other reasons but that's a different story).

I also agree that having someone help get you into a spot (via airplane, boat, horse, etc.) is pretty different than having someone do all the work except for pulling the trigger.

 

[atlas]

I've actually heard him say he doesn't have a beef at all with public land outfitters. Not sure if agree with that but that's his opinion on public land outfitters which wilderness guys would fall into.

 

[The Hedgehog]

It's definitely a fuzzy line though. I've been on a number of guided deep sea fishing trips, and I never thought of myself as a client and not a fisherman. I also worked as a deckhand for some wealthy people, I baited the hooks, took people to the spots, even hooked the fish and handed them the rods, netted the fish, did the processing after, etc. and I didn't think less of the guests (for that reason, some of them I thought less of for other reasons but that's a different story).

I also agree that having someone help get you into a spot (via airplane, boat, horse, etc.) is pretty different than having someone do all the work except for pulling the trigger.

So there were no podcast references of being yellow belts or purple belts at fishing?

 

[Joseph Peterson]

I've actually heard him say he doesn't have a beef at all with public land outfitters. Not sure if agree with that but that's his opinion on public land outfitters which wilderness guys would fall into.

Ok, for the last seven years I have been guiding on private ranches after retiring from the outfit I ran for 20 years. Here is a 70 year old lady who had open heart surgery less than a year before this hunt. I originally gave her and her husband permission to hunt on my farm. After a couple days of trying to skirt the canyon tops, they had no luck and asked if I were able to guide them. Here in Idaho you have to be working for an outfitter to be able to guide. I took them to the 3000 acre ranch I was managing as a daily fee hunt. After a couple of days spotting bucks that were out of her ability to stalk, we found this one just off the top. We spotted it from the bottom- 1500' below the bedded deer. We took a long UTV ride to gain the needed elevation and get to flatter ground she could handle. It still required a 150 yd crawl through thistles to get into position and she was game the whole time. If you take anything away from this woman for her kill you are a total dip. Some people hire an outfitter/guide because they just cannot do what they once could. I have dozens more similar stories that fly in the face of the notion a private land guided hunt is a less than honorable hunt. It is easy for me and many of you to do what we do with ease and comfort, but how about those who are just learning or well past their prime? I am 62 and still not only guiding, packing bulls on my back, humping up the hills with abandon and guiding but doing it well. But from my vantage point, I can see where what I do now will not be an option. Am I less of a hunter or man if at some point I need help? You all may not be talking about these particular things but don't throw all outfitters/guides under the bus.

 

[The Hedgehog]

She looks good for 50, let alone 70.

My guess is she’s not doing pushups on video and talking about her epic hunt and the fitness required to be the ultimate predator.

Thicker skin goes a long ways.

 

[TheTone]

I always enjoyed watching people stock pheasants on that ranch and then seeing the fancy clients show up a few minutes later to blast them. I’m sure that was some wonderful hunting memories. I’d also really like to see what deer hunting that unit would be like if permission could be gained to land by knocking on doors but alas a pile is being leased up for hunt clubs and private land outfitters

 

[The Hedgehog]

I always enjoyed watching people stock pheasants on that ranch and then seeing the fancy clients show up a few minutes later to blast them. I’m sure that was some wonderful hunting memories. I’d also really like to see what deer hunting that unit would be like if permission could be gained to land by knocking on doors but alas a pile is being leased up for hunt clubs and private land outfitters

Pocket full of cash improves odds.

 

[Joseph Peterson]

I always enjoyed watching people stock pheasants on that ranch and then seeing the fancy clients show up a few minutes later to blast them. I’m sure that was some wonderful hunting memories. I’d also really like to see what deer hunting that unit would be like if permission could be gained to land by knocking on doors but alas a pile is being leased up for hunt clubs and private land outfitters

I have never turned anyone down who has asked to hunt on my farm. I might start now though.

 

[Forkyfinder]

I have never turned anyone down who has asked to hunt on my farm. I might start now though.

Interesting.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I have never turned anyone down who has asked to hunt on my farm. I might start now though.

Be sure to put a few signs up to really highlight your message.

Maybe something like this..

NO MORE FREE HUNTING!!
People on the internet hurt my feelings and did not properly respect the tourists that pay me.​

 

[lastlight]

I have never turned anyone down who has asked to hunt on my farm. I might start now though.

Watching the minority turned majority right in front of our eyes folks.

 

[Joseph Peterson]

Watching the minority turned majority right in front of our eyes folks.

A requirement for access is respect, dignity and fortitude. Many people lack those qualities by characterising people they do not know, have never met, may be in a completely different situation and have the above mentioned qualities as lazy rich guys. The blanket statements thrown out in this and other threads decrying the morality of landowners who either lease or charge a trespass fee, outfitters/guides who provide public service, hunters who use the services of said guides/outfitters are knowingly causing division rather than understanding. I have been in the business for 35 years and seen more abuse than most anyone but focusing on the problem children while ignoring the well behaved leads to a poor ending for all.

I use my name in my profile because I do not shrink from my opinions and statements.

 

[The Hedgehog]

A requirement for access is respect, dignity and fortitude. Many people lack those qualities by characterising people they do not know, have never met, may be in a completely different situation and have the above mentioned qualities as lazy rich guys. The blanket statements thrown out in this and other threads decrying the morality of landowners who either lease or charge a trespass fee, outfitters/guides who provide public service, hunters who use the services of said guides/outfitters are knowingly causing division rather than understanding. I have been in the business for 35 years and seen more abuse than most anyone but focusing on the problem children while ignoring the well behaved leads to a poor ending for all.

I use my name in my profile because I do not shrink from my opinions and statements.

Taking tourists on safari adventures, whether they're riding your ponies in the hills, or on your pay to play properties is an important service industry. Don't let anybody make you feel any differently about that.