That is a really good point. Ask media? Strongly encourage? Not sure how to accomplish it, but it would help.What is that Amendment just before the regulated militia one?
Snarky trope.
Sorry, not sorry.
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That is a really good point. Ask media? Strongly encourage? Not sure how to accomplish it, but it would help.What is that Amendment just before the regulated militia one?
Snarky trope.
Sorry, not sorry.
Mic drop...I can't speak for others but here is my problem statement.
First, every day, with guns or not, millions of Americans struggle with unmet mental health needs. Not only these millions suffer, but a large multiple of these millions in the form of spouses, parents, kids, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc also suffer alongside them. Americans can't seem to quit squabbling about far less compelling issues and petty politics long enough to meaningfully address.
Second, some urban areas and some rural areas have lost most social cohesion and any semblance of hope. This drives a concentration of gangs, drugs and associated violence Economic opportunity is the only viable path out of this mess. But again, neither side seems willing to do the hard work beyond virtue signaling.
But once or twice a year an active shooter brings mental health to the headlines, as does skyrocketing gang violence in major cities. So, I would like to use society's obsession/fascination with these "black swans" to move on broader mental health and economic development initiatives. To bring some supporters along, a mixed bag of gun control tweaks (some a little tighter, some a little looser) might help push the discussion forward since public pressure to do "something about guns" is a powerful political motivator.
I'm surprised you propose eliminating the NFA and FAFs. I'd say the the way they treat machine guns, suppressors, and barrel length is the model that should be followed. The reason the machine guns, silencers, etc aren't used in these mass shootings is that they are hard to get so only serious people buy them. The same thing would be true of the high capacity semi-autos and their magazines. Right now they are treated like toys that any idiot can buy.50 state firearms carry, no NFA bullchit for suppressors and barrel length, a push to enforce and prosecute existing laws, a funding mechanism for mental health upgrades, federal pre-emption to stop the CA/MA battle to be the most regulated states, and several others above.
Let's keep personally directed sarcasm/tone out of this thread.Right because they won't resort to that if they don't have access to an AR style platform.
I’m not particularly religious myself and I don’t believe morality can be legislatd, but it seems if there’s a pretty strong push in this country towards an intentional immoral, valueless, type of degeneracy and it is pushed by the side of the political spectrum that wants to see gun control in response to violence.
I can’t help but imagine that gender wokeism, racism, two years of fake paranoia, social isolation and masking of children, intentional destruction of the nuclear family, etc. is making anything better. These problems certainly aren’t caused by two parent households, promoting traditional, Christian values, hard work and decency.
Maybe your kid doesn’t need seven pharmaceuticals. Maybe he just needs to go split some firewood, and for his dad to beat his ass for lying and for his mom to make a nice dinner, for the family to all sit down and have together.
If someone’s daughter aspires to be a tik tok influencer making slutty dance videos or an only fans “model”, instead of an electrical engineer or (gasp) a stay at home mom/wife, perhaps that’s a sign that somewhere things went a bit off the rails.
If its just recent how do you explain 2018 and 2019?
@mtmillerThat is a really good point. Ask media? Strongly encourage? Not sure how to accomplish it, but it would help.
I'm surprised you propose eliminating the NFA and FAFs. I'd say the the way they treat machine guns, suppressors, and barrel length is the model that should be followed. The reason the machine guns, silencers, etc aren't used in these mass shootings is that they are hard to get so only serious people buy them. The same thing would be true of the high capacity semi-autos and their magazines. Right now they are treated like toys that any idiot can buy.
The cat may be out of the bag on these, but I think the concept is sound and we definitely shouldn't be going backwards on this by removing stuff. Imagine if the guy was using a suppressor and subsonic ammo. It would take much longer to track him down.
I trying to say that’s a complicated ball of wax.No need for this discussion then.
I offer the following as appropriate in my mind for a hunting forum given the important role firearms have in hunting, the overlap between hunters and broader "shooting enthusiasts", and my faith in the broad judgment and experience of the HT community. Please keep this civil and please avoid generic anti-Dem/anti-GOP tropes.
I am a 2A proponent consistent with the boundaries of Heller. That being, a person has a 2A right to bear arms for, among other reasons, personal protection. At the same time, like every one of the rights guaranteed under our Constitution, certain carefully crafted regulation is possible.
As such, I grow weary of one side repackaging their wish list as "common sense", and equally grow weary of the other side pointing out all the social ills that are the "real root of violence" but then not funding any programs to address those ills.
In my view, "common-sense" legislation implicitly requires some degree of compromise - a move by both sides to the middle. So, while I know there are folks that will pan each and every idea I suggest below, I do believe if enacted together they could make a meaningful difference in gun violence and suicide while minimizing the overall net effects on the vast majority of gun owners.
----
These are in no particular order
- Universal Background Checks for all transfers, sales or conveyances - the only exceptions are (i) for parent to child in presence of parent, (ii) parent to child for hunting where both are participants, (iii) hunting/shooting partner/instructor to partner/student at range or when hunting and (iv) to/from FFL holder
- If after three days the check is not cleared, it can be extended an additional 30 days, but if the individual is eventually cleared, the govt will give them a 25% rebate on the purchase price for the 30 day hassle/delay
- The Fed govt will continue to invest in improved background check databases and functionality
- A fully funded and staffed system for timely restoration of firearms rights for anyone who has not committed a crime where they shot another person and is otherwise deemed safe/rehabilitated
- Self-made firearms may not be made by any person who is inelligible to purchase under the Universal Background Check criterea
- Self-made firearms may not be sold/transferred/conveyed to any other person without proper serialization
- Fed funds provided to states/local govt for law enforcement, prisons, and emergency medical services will be subject to active enforcement, prosecution and sentencing of existing firearms laws.
- Federal red flag system using due process standards similar to civil commitment with timely and reliable return of firearms after the situation no longer supports continued "committment" status
- Strong criminal penalties for misuse of red flag system by those initiating the action
- NFA rules around SBR/shotgun length/supressors/etc are gone - a firearm is a firearm, size, shape, and color have no impact on regulation other than a continued minimum metal requirement
- Fully automatic firearms (FAF) are illegal for any person other than military in course of duties
- Current lawful NFA stamp owners have two years to surrender or render inoperable a current FAF - confirmation of such will generate refund of $200 tax stamp fee and $1,000 for weapon value
- Parts used to assist a non-FAF to perform without independent, discrete and intentional trigger pulls are illegal - bump stocks, forced reset triggers, Glock full auto sear, etc,
- Federal pre-emption for all licensing, permiting, safety and other regulation of firearms
- No state/local/federal firearm registration database
- Continued immunity for firearm/ammo manufacturers/sellers/gunsmith for actions by users provided they are FFL compliant - but they remain liable for manufacturing defects/etc
- Some type of reasonable safe storage requirement when lawful owner is not present
- Banks, credit card companies, and internet companies operating under the Section 230 safe harbor may not discriminate against firearms/ammo manufacturers/sellers/users
- A national carry permit (not just concealed) - basic training class + simple range test + background check - renewed every 10 years - this would be offered in addition to whatever state permits are provided
- The federal govt will regulate marijuana in the same manner it regulates alcohol
- The federal govt will grant clemency and expungement for all marijuana convictions
- The federal govt will provide additional economic development grants to states that also grant clemency and expungement for all marijuana convictions
- All sales of alcohol, marijuana, firearms, ammunition, ammunition reloading supplies, and firearm accessories will be subject to a nationwide 5% sales tax
- All profits of social media companies with more than 1 million users in the US shall be subject to a 10% surcharge
- All current federal funds allocated to marijuana enforcement will be carried over to this new fund
- All sales of illegal drugs will be taxed via a 25% income tax surcharge to be collected by the IRS (I know there will be little collected, but heck it got Capone )
- These cumulative funds would then be matched dollar for dollar by federal general funds
- 50% of these funds will go improvement of mental health services/systems nationwide, including suicide prevention programs
- 50% of these funds will go to high gun violence zip codes to fund additional economic development, mental health, education and police services in equal measure
All good points.I can't speak for others but here is my problem statement.
First, every day, with guns or not, millions of Americans struggle with unmet mental health needs. Not only these millions suffer, but a large multiple of these millions in the form of spouses, parents, kids, friends, neighbors, co-workers, etc also suffer alongside them. Americans can't seem to quit squabbling about far less compelling issues and petty politics long enough to meaningfully address.
Second, some urban areas and some rural areas have lost most social cohesion and any semblance of hope. This drives a concentration of gangs, drugs and associated violence. Economic opportunity is the only viable path out of this mess. But again, neither side seems willing to do the hard work beyond virtue signaling.
But once or twice a year an active shooter brings mental health to the headlines, as does skyrocketing gang violence in major cities. So, I would like to use society's obsession/fascination with these "black swans" to move on broader mental health and economic development initiatives. To bring some supporters along, a mixed bag of gun control tweaks (some a little tighter, some a little looser) might help push the discussion forward since public pressure to do "something about guns" is a powerful political motivator.
Nowhere did I say it is just that. But, there is no debate to be had about whether or not the part you bolded has decreased mental stability among people whose brains are still forming.
I think you’ve hit it on the head. We as a country have little concern with anyone but ourselves. We have no appetite for the taxes that would be required to help people who are in need.All good points.
The problem, as I see it, is that society as a whole really doesn't care. Not saying some people don't at all, but as a whole. Violence against children does still push a spasmodic response for a few days, but most people will be on to the next thing in 2 weeks.
Most people's response to inner city problems is just to not go there. Most people's response to mental health issues is to hold those affected at arms length.
Like has been pointed out, as horrific as they are, mass shootings are not what's killing the most people in the gun violence realm. Why don't those suicide numbers provoke more action?
Maybe I'm just too cynical......
I could care less about any gun law changes because the root cause of these killings has nothing to do with guns. You don't blame beer when a little kid is hit by a drunk driver. You don't blame knives when a kid is stabbed to death. You don't blame Ford escapes when that POS mowed down and killed many at the Waukesha Christmas parade this winter, you don't blame pressure cookers when the Boston Marathon assholes killed and maimed so many. But one person of the dozens shot or killed every night in Chicago?? GUN VIOLENCE. Mass shootings? GUN VIOLENCE People need to take a class called root cause analysis. Would taking away guns lower the killings with guns? Sure, but will it fix the real problems that are the true cause of why people are choosing the easy tool to commit an evil act, not one bit. I would rather fix the root cause, because it will lower all weapon type murder rates, all suicided rates, and not infringe on the very important second amendment that places like Ukraine and Syria sure wish they had among other events in history. Every time something like this happens people who really just hate guns use it as a platform to go after guns rather than the root cause. Bigger questions, how about why any school is in a condition where someone with guns can drive up, walk in the back door and start shooting away? Why not scream about making laws to secure schools? We can send 52 BILLION to another country in a heartbeat but can't spend a tiny fraction of that $$ instead to secure our schools and enforce laws here? I'm sorry, I am not interested in any gun laws until the bigger fish are fried. The anti gun crowd refuses to have any armed teachers, armed security, or police at schools. They live in a world where they think if you fly a peace sign flag or coexist all bad people like Putin will just go away. Ain't happening. People are getting less respectful of other humans, lives, laws, and law enforcement.I don’t think anyone has all the answers to our nationwide mental health crisis, but it’s damn sure we are overdue in trying to figure some of it out. This is much bigger than just the few dozen killed by active shooters - or even the few thousand who choose firearms for suicide. This is about literally tens of millions suffering from on-going mental health challenges - a very small percentage of whom will pick up a weapon and use it to horrible effect.
Maybe not conversationally, but legally alcohol is highly regulated - age limits, vendor licensing, time place and manner restrictions etc. (and historically there was prohibition)You don't blame beer when a little kid is hit by a drunk driver.
While not pressure cookers, post OK City we have a lot more regulation and reporting around fertilizer purchases.you don't blame pressure cookers when the Boston Marathon assholes killed and maimed so many.
Yes, I am listening to myself. My question to you is: Do you even understand the purpose of the 2nd Amendment, and why it was written the way it is? Your statement below makes me tend to believe that you don't.Yeah. Just throw more guns in the mix. Fix gun violence by making it more accessible. Are you listening to yourself?
Again, you need to understand the 2nd Amendment. Here's an example:No one has any logical need for a weapon that can rapid fire twenty rounds (or more!) without loading. There is only one purpose for those guns and that is designated military or law enforcement.
I would bet money that at some time in this kids life his mental health was questioned at least once and due to the difficulties involved in getting him help or people complacency to get him help it was ignored.
It was, he was contacted by local police regarding mental health concerns. The outcome is obvious now, but the need for forced mental health care in today's world is obvious.I would bet money that at some time in this kids life his mental health was questioned at least once and due to the difficulties involved in getting him help or people complacency to get him help it was ignored.