Your eatin lead?

[cjcj]

hump Most birds have gizzards hump

Since the G&F did the research.....you can`t call bullshit on me? and if you can`t even fathom that Condors have a gizzard/craw ? you just contradicted yourself

I think i will believe the G&F and their study... unless of course you guys are "qualified" street bioligists.



Wildlife advocates petitioned California last week to ban lead bullets to protect condors.

More than 50 of the gawky and endangered birds reside in the southern half of the state. Two condors reared in captivity have died from ingesting lead in carcasses in the wild, and six more show acute lead poisoning, says Ron Jurek, a biologist with the state Department of Fish and Game.

A group of environmentalists, biologists and hunters filed the emergency petition. It seeks to substitute copper or steel-jacket bullets, which are less toxic but cost more.

"We don't tolerate lead in our gasoline or cooking pots [so] there's no reason to expose our endangered wildlife to it," says researcher Jeff Miller of the Tucson-based Center for Biological Diversity.

The five-member state Fish and Game Commission is scheduled to consider the request at its February meeting in San Diego.

 

[snake river rufus]

Birds that eat grain need gizzards, meat eating birds don't. But I'm glad to see you taking information from anti-hunting groups.

 

[Elkmtb]

CJ- I don't think anyone is calling BS on you (well maybe) but BS is being called on the study. And my edumucation and ciphering level is up to 6th grade level now.

Unless you know everywhere that bird has been and found the bullet in the birds gut (or stuck in its throat ) it would be difficult to determine cause to the bullet. More likely again from eating fish from polluted mines would be my guess, and purely a WAG.

Sounds like pollitically correct misinformation probably to garner negative PR towards hunting. Your opinions may vary.

 

[snake river rufus]

Sounds like pollitically correct misinformation probably to garner negative PR towards hunting. Your opinions may vary.

Exactly. I do not have anything against all copper bullets, no matter who makes them. I have used both barnes and groove all copper bullets with excellent results. but I'm not going to let government bean counters force me to use them with out some damn good research. Hearsay won't make the grade.

 

[cjcj]

I think you are uninformed?

Kelly Sorensen of the Ventana Wilderness Society in Big Sur, the site of another release facility that is partnering with the Pinnacles park staff in the recovery effort, is hoping to find grant money for a program that would give non-lead ammunition to hunters.
“It would empower hunters to try something that would benefit wildlife,” said Sorenson. “We’re just now developing the strategy. It doesn’t take a lot of money, but it’s a priority for us.”
* * * * *
A 2003 study written by Dr. Michael Fry of UC Davis concludes that gut piles left by hunters throughout the condor’s range, from Monterey to Ventura, are the main reason for their premature deaths. The birds normally live 40 or 50 years.
An estimated 150 condors have been released through the national condor recovery program since 1995. Most of the birds are released throughout California, with the Pinnacles National Monument as the newest release site, and near the Grand Canyon in Arizona. Since 1997, at least seven condors have died of lead poisoning – one in California and six in Arizona – and another 26 birds have undergone emergency chelation treatments.

[Quote from Snake river rufus]
Birds that eat grain need gizzards, meat eating birds don't. But I'm glad to see you taking information from anti-hunting groups.

[ quote from snake]Solid lead is not digestable from what I can learn so unless a bird has a gizzard to hold the bullet while digestive juices work,,,It is BS

Leads pellets have been found in the gizzards of seven condors in Arizona, and all had to undergo chelation and flushes of their intestinal tracks.

 

[snake river rufus]

PDF] The 10th ICRU Gray Medal to Dr. Michael Fry
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Dr. Michael Fry during the 12. th. International Congress of Radiation Research
in Brisbane,. Australia in August 2003. As the tenth recipient of the Gray ...
www.icru.org/n_02_9.pdf - Similar pages

Dr Michael Fry
Animal and Microbial Sciences Home > Dr Michael Fry, ... Dr Michael Fry. Cell and Molecular
Biology. Email: [email protected]. Telephone: (01189) 875123 ext 7028. ...
www.lifesciences.rdg.ac.uk/staff/staffID=43 - 31k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages

TCD School of Mathematics > People
Dr. Michael Fry. Senior Lecturer in Mathematics Email [email protected] Office
3.7 Telephone +353-1-608 1889. Research Interests Quantum Field Theory ...
www.maths.tcd.ie/people/ index.php?file=people&code=MPF - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

TCD School of Mathematics: Mathematics Courses
... 141 Mechanics 1 (PDF description of 141) Lecturer: Dr. Michael Fry; 151 Statistics
and Probability 1 Lecturer: Eamonn Mullins (Statistics) ...
www.maths.tcd.ie/pub/official/Courses03-04/ - 25k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.maths.tcd.ie ]

Cov Uni - CSAD - Dr Michael Fry
Staff profile of Dr Michael Fry from the School of Art and Design.

From google. Which one is a wildlife biologist

 

[snake river rufus]

And which Kelly Sorenson are we looking for

Kelly Sorensen#01144023, Copyright © 2004-2005 Kelly Sorensen Web Design Nextwork · Home - About FFB - About Kelly - Testimonials - Residential Lending - Commercial ...
www.kellysorensen.com/ - 3k - Cached - Similar pages


Kelly Sorensen's profile at hockeydb.comKelly Sorensen, Right Wing Born Jun 11 1970 -- Newmarket, ONT Height 5.11 -- Weight 180 -- Shoots R. Selected by Detroit Red Wings 1991 NHL Supplemental ...
www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=00005085 - 9k - Cached - Similar pages


Kelly SorensenKelly Sorensen ... PHIL267 SP Normative Ethics. To send E-Mail to Kelly Sorensen: [email protected]. Last Updated on MAR-19-2004.
www.wesleyan.edu/wesmaps/ course0304/faculty/sorensen014.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages


Kelly SorensenKelly Sorensen ... PHIL331 SP Being Good and Acting Well. To send E-Mail to Kelly Sorensen: [email protected]. Last Updated on MAR-18-2003.
www.wesleyan.edu/wesmaps/ course0203/faculty/sorensen014.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages


FacultyKelly Sorensen, Assistant Professor of Philosophy and Religion ... Kelly Sorensen (Ph.D. 2003, Yale) joined Ursinus College in 2004 after a stint as ...
academic.ursinus.edu/phil/faculty.htm - 11k - Cached - Similar pages


Leah JosephDr. Kelly Sorensen. Dr. Sorensen is an Assistant Professor of Philosophy and Religion. He works on ethical theory and applied ethics, with specific ...
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Casper soldier shot in Iraq... Spc. Kelly Sorensen, 22, was on patrol in Ramadi, just north of Baghdad, when he was shot by enemy fire, said his father, Keith Sorensen. ...
www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2004/ 11/24/news/casper/afa847fe65ade6b987256f56000beda5.txt - 20k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages

I did not see one with anything resembling credentals, do you?

 

[cjcj]

Snake i think you are wasting your time.

So far i like the free all copper bullets, they work great for me...can`t wait to try one on Elk.. hump

But i think you and Elkmtb have lost this argument. live to argue another day.

 

[snake river rufus]

Not at all. I won't change your mind, but there is a whole gallery of readers. Many of whom are not short-sighted.
As I said, I do like all copper bullets and use them myself. But I will not let a government lacky tell me that I must use them with out some hard evidence. And while you have cited some studies, their authors have absolutely no back ground in this field. So I give them no credence.

 

[cjcj]

Snake i agree with your statement [ government lacky telling you what to do]

That never happened, they gave us free ammo and asked us to try it, i mean "free ammo" what a deal!,

Just getting the ammo free , didn`t mean you had to use or try it

2 boxes in almost any caliber.... i got a survey on how the copper ammo worked...i gave it an excellent rating ... but i did say i only used it cause it was free, and voluntary.

 

[snake river rufus]

Well you are providing a data base that may lead to those government lackys telling us what to do.
Further you do understand that the so-called experts of the studies that you have cited are not in fact experts in any field related to this subject, don't you

 

[cjcj]

Monkeys "MAY" fly out of my butt......I don`t worry about what might happen...

 

[snake river rufus]

And when it does you will be claiming "it's not my fault". but you'll be wrong

Here is what google says about another one of your "experts"
Chris Parish: Biography & ResourcesFor the past eighteen years, Chris Parish has been studying and introducing others to the Evolutionary Enlightenment teachings of spiritual teacher Andrew ...
www.wie.org/bios/chris-parish.asp?ifr=voi - 9k - Cached - Similar pages


Chris Parish: Exploring the Landscape of a New ConsciousnessChris Parish, a pioneer of a new discussion forum called “Enlightened Communication,” describes the extraordinary creativity that emerges when an entire ...
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[ More results from www.wie.org ]

So yes, I'm calling bullchit on your study

 

[cjcj]

So yes, I'm calling bullchit on your study[ quote SRR]

It aint my study, "get it" hump

You can call B.S all day long... it means nothing... your way "over reacting"

Are you saying i shouldn`t have posted the information ?or my opinion?

Your yelling FIRE and no one has lit a match |oo

[quote SRR]
And when it does you will be claiming "it's not my fault". but you'll be wrong

When "IT" does what?
And "What" will be my fault?

Is this thread dead yet?

 

[snake river rufus]

You accepted the study as factual, you cited it as evidence, so for the purpose of this post,Yes it is your study
You can post your opinion all you want but to call this study "information" is a bit misleading.
You just can't see the match.
"it" is the banning of lead projectiles, what do you think we have been talking about?

 

[cjcj]

You tried to "imply" that Condors have no gizzards? and could not get lead poisoning that way, [hence the study]


[quote from Snake]
Still wonder about the methodology of the study. Solid lead is not digestable from what I can learn so unless a bird has a gizzard to hold the bullet while digestive juices work,,,It is BS

[quote from study]
Leads pellets have been found in the gizzards of seven condors in Arizona, and all had to undergo chelation and flushes of their intestinal tracks.




Where do you see anyone banning lead projectiles? |oo |oo |oo

 

[snake river rufus]

I'm no longer going to imply anything. Your study is flawed and appears to be driven to reach a pre determined posistion. It's authors have absolutely no background in a real field of science.
If you are not aware of the small but growing movement to ban lead projectiles, then neither I nor anyone else on the face of this earth can help you.

 

[cjcj]

Ok,...now i think its time to kill the thread.....We each have our own views.....if you want the last word go for it, i think i`m done????

 

[snake river rufus]

Yes, it's time you backed out

 

[cjcj]

2 condors being treated at Phoenix Zoo

John Faherty
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 14, 2006 05:45 PM


Linda Cava approached bird 149 slowly because bird 149 is a very special animal.

Of course considering the California Condor is one of the most endangered species on the planet, all of them are special.

There are a total of 273 alive today and fewer than half of them live in the wild. advertisement




That's what makes bird 149, a nine year-old female, extraordinary.

Not only has she thrived in the wild since her release in the late '90s, she is also the mother of a wild condor. A healthy baby born in the wild is a rare and extraordinary event.

Last month bird 149 and a three year-old male condor were captured in the Vermilion Cliffs area northeast of the Grand Canyon. They are being treated at the Phoenix Zoo for lead poisoning.

The animals will not be on display at the zoo.

Preparing to give the condor some medicine Tuesday morning, Cava approached bird 149 with a large net and plenty of caution.

Experience has taught Cava that trying to subdue a very large bird in a very small cage is a delicate procedure.

Zoo veterinarian Kathy Orr, who has worked with impressive and exotic animals for years, prepared to enter the cage.

"I get goose bumps when I work with them," Orr said. "When they open their wings you just say 'wow.' And then you realize there are only 270 of them in the whole world."

California Condors eat large, dead animals. Too often, they ingest lead fragments left in the remains of animals killed by hunters.

Because all of the birds are monitored by radio signal, it is easy to identify which ones are having physical problems. A bird with lead poisoning may stay in one place for days.

When that happens, field biologists will capture a condor in a cage baited with a dead calf. The calves are donated to the biologists by dairies.

That's how these two birds were picked up.

Typically, field biologists try to treat the animals by capturing them and injecting them with calcium versenate (Metamucil) which helps the birds expel the lead naturally.

But if the lead lodges in a bird's stomach, the animal needs to be driven down to the animal hospital at the Phoenix Zoo. There they will be treated, monitored and X-rayed. Surgery may be necessary.

The three year-old male did need an operation to remove food stuck in his digestive track as a result of the lead poisoning.

He has also been treated with daily injections to help him get the lead out.

Tuesday, a veterinarian, three veterinarian technicians, and the zoo hospital keeper worked in concert to carefully hold the male bird down for an X-ray to see how he was doing.

A fully grown condor is powerful, has a sharp beak, and is not particularly happy to be held down. That makes the job potentially dangerous for the people, and absolutely threatening to the bird.

"I've got his wings," said Melodie Meldrum.

"I've got his legs and tail," Cava said.

"Ok, ok. I've got his beak," Susan Logan said.

The young male took a major step when X-rays showed the sliver of lead, about the size of the tip of a ballpoint pen, had moved out of the stomach, through the gizzard, and was now in the animal's intestine. The trouble was passing.

The zoo is confident the female, bird 149, will improve as well.

When the birds are deemed healthy, they will be released back into the wild by the Arizona Game and Fish Department and the Peregrine Fund, a private group that works to boost the ranks of raptors and other large birds.

In the meantime, these two birds will stay at the Phoenix Zoo where their handlers have a clear affection for an animal that could generously be described as ugly.

"I think they are gorgeous," said Logan. "First they are huge. They are one of those animals that just makes you say 'wow' when they spread their wings. And they are very intelligent."

Cava looked at bird 149 with affection. "They seem like very good parents. Both of the them work to take care of the baby. They take it very seriously."

She smiled at the face of an animal only a mother could love.