Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[Deepnsteep]

Two trespassing bills died today without being introduced...HB103 and HB128. HB019 needs to be watched closely. All three of these could impact the corner crossing issue whether they were legitimately intended to or not.

Dead bills

https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2022/HB0103

https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2022/HB0128

Introduced 49-10-1 and referred to the House Ag Committee. Not on the agenda yet, but next week I suppose. Can't you just picture a bunch of painted fence posts at there corner pins we're all worked up about?

https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2022/HB0019

 

[antlerradar]

Can't you just picture a bunch of painted fence posts at there corner pins we're all worked up about?

https://wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2022/HB0019

Sure make them easier to find.

 

[JM77]

What do you folks reckon WWF and TRCP were worried about in picking a side on this deal? This is the best exposure I’ve seen on the corner crossing issue and it sure as heck doesn’t favor landowners trying to claim public as their own.

Are they worried about poking a bought legislature and getting negative results? IMO that only brings more ugly to light on this issue. If a legislature is going to take steps to blatantly make laws to support the greedy wants of a tiny wealthy minority at the cost of the vast majority of their constituents, let em do it now that their ugly motives are out in the open.

As far as WWF is concerned, I was told "some" legislators told their lobbyist to stay out of the cc issue "or else". If this is true, it tells me there is a certain lack of respect here, as legislators know that a lobbyist should be loyal to their cause. Idol threats should be meaningless. If public lands access is one of your causes, abandoning that cause over a petty threat can be taken as weak and causes a lack of respect.

And then there is the money issue. Unlike BHA, which is all volunteer in Wyoming, some of these organizations pay their help. Guess what happens when you have a difference of opinion with some G&F Commissioners? You got it, they pull your Commissioner tag. This can be a real problem when "the voice of hunters and anglers" doesn't get a paycheck!

 

[Nameless Range]

As far as WWF is concerned, I was told "some" legislators told their lobbyist to stay out of the cc issue "or else". If this is true, it tells me there is a certain lack of respect here, as legislators know that a lobbyist should be loyal to their cause. Idol threats should be meaningless. If public lands access is one of your causes, abandoning that cause over a petty threat can be taken as weak and causes a lack of respect.

And then there is the money issue. Unlike BHA, which is all volunteer in Wyoming, some of these organizations pay their help. Guess what happens when you have a difference of opinion with some G&F Commissioners? You got it, they pull your Commissioner tag. This can be a real problem when "the voice of hunters and anglers" doesn't get a paycheck!

I know it is not what this thread is about, but it is interesting how those tags often lauded as money makers for conservation, can also compromise an organization. Not an aspect of them I have ever thought about.

 

[Oak]

I know it is not what this thread is about, but it is interesting how those tags often lauded as money makers for conservation, can also compromise an organization. Not an aspect of them I have ever thought about.

Let’s go bigger.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

i m liking bha for standing up for whats right on this corner crossing case,lets hope it comes out right.

 

[Elkmagnet]

i m liking bha for standing up for whats right on this corner crossing case,lets hope it comes out right.

Agreed it would have been very easy to shut up and still get that tag/ not anger so many legislators.
Bad people will make doing the right thing really fing hard. A bunch of true colors are shining through on this one.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I know it is not what this thread is about, but it is interesting how those tags often lauded as money makers for conservation, can also compromise an organization. Not an aspect of them I have ever thought about.

Yup - it's called crony capitalism and it is a far bigger threat to the American Experiment than socialism or skinhead fascists.

While at first blush one would say a non-profit isn't a capitalist endeavor so this isn't that, I think the term "crony capitalism" is best viewed as vested interests (industry, non-profits, govt agencies, etc) aligning money and interests with government institutions in a way that co-opts the broader public will for the benefit of the govt and the vested interests.

And while some may not, I distinguish this from run-of-the-mill lobbying. For example, a widget company hiring lobbyists to tell congress that a proposed widget regulation will cause job losses is not crony capitalism. A non-profit lobbying congress to say that widget production is harming the 1-balled eastern squirrel is not crony capitalism. Crony capitalism is when the widget makers, the non-profit and the government set up a regulatory scheme that makes competition with widget makers harder (more $ for them), while throwing some bone to the non-profit so their leadership can claim victory and solicit more money from supporters ($ that primarily pays their salaries by the way), and the govt agency gets more funding/staffing ($) to police the new regs. Follow the money, and when all the vested interests get more $, but the real issue is not actually solved for the public, that is where crony capitalism lives.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I know it is not what this thread is about, but it is interesting how those tags often lauded as money makers for conservation, can also compromise an organization. Not an aspect of them I have ever thought about.

It has always seemed like leverage to me but I tend to be cynical of them. Now they look closer to blackmail material.

 

[jtm307]

i m liking bha for standing up for whats right on this corner crossing case

I’m giving some serious thought to a lifetime membership for being the only organization to publicly stick their neck out in this case.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Just catching up on this. Would be excellent if the hunters prevail (i.e. all of us). I personally hunt many checkerboard areas in WY, as does this website's owner. Even if it's a long-shot, this is one worth showing support for, either here or to the hunters for their defense.

Thanks to Buzz, Jeff, and the Wyoming crew pushing for help..

 

[Treeshark]

It is for that reason, until I find legal advice explaining a different analysis of civil trespass, that I won't be involved in a civil trespass by corner crossing. That's just my personal position on property rights and I don't see it changing until it is determined that corner crossing is not civil trespass.

Greenhorn- well said and agreed. Just curious though- by “owner of this website,” did you mean Randy or are there other owners (only asking because his earlier statement copied above seems to be at odds with yours)?

 

[bullbugle307]

Greenhorn- well said and agreed. Just curious though- by “owner of this website,” did you mean Randy or are there other owners (only asking because his earlier statement copied above seems to be at odds with yours)?

Hunting checkerboard doesn't equate to corner crossing. I think that's where your confused.

I hunt checkerboard a lot too despite never having corner crossed.

 

[Treeshark]

That’s a good point, I stand corrected on my assumption.

 

[marksjeep]

https://wyofile.com/corner-crossers-face-new-civil-suit-as-prosecutor-tries-to-add-charge/

 

[seeth07]

https://wyofile.com/corner-crossers-face-new-civil-suit-as-prosecutor-tries-to-add-charge/

Juicy new details. Nice.

“The Defendants are actively carrying out a campaign to solicit funds to defend their improper and unlawful actions, and … may intend to encourage other persons to carry out unlawful ‘corner crossings’ on Plaintiff’s Property,” the suit states.

You're damn right it will, you poked an angry bear Mr. Fred Eshelman.

I like the detail about the special use permit. If the hunters file a suit for harassment, could their permit get removed and not allow them to guide on the blm land?

 

[Sytes]

Just curious though- by “owner of this website,” did you mean Randy or are there other owners (only asking because his earlier statement copied above seems to be at odds with yours)?

I believe he's referencing Randy's comment regarding Montana statutes.

Even if you can find that infinite intersection of parcels, something very difficult to do at times, it has been explained to me that crossing there is still civil trespass. For that reason, corner crossing is now off my list.

 

[Thx1138]

It will be interesting now to see if BHA will pony up to the necessary costs of funding a Civil Lawsuit against IRon Mountain Holdings.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I am glad to see this is all getting out on the table in one matter - hopefully resolution will settle many similar but different legal issues surrounding corners and hunting.

@BuzzH Make sure to let’s us know if more funds are needed to drive this forward.

 

[Dougfirtree]

https://wyofile.com/corner-crossers-face-new-civil-suit-as-prosecutor-tries-to-add-charge/

They're doubling down and what really bothers me is the way the county seems to be taking sides.

If I felt like this case is going to get a fair shake, I'd say it's a good thing and Fred is just making the eventual decision even better for us. But, I worry about whether it will be decided by an unbiased person and I worry that Fred will pile on so much that the bowhunters bow out and find a settlement with no decision. I, for one, will continue to be willing to donate legal fees if they stick with it.