Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[Deepnsteep]

Plus, there is legislation introduced by Western, to give more notice to the public about all State land deals.

That bill died in committee this morning.

 

[Cornell Cowboy]

I've heard threats all my life about landowner retaliation, its all been a bunch of BS.

Except, of course, for the example I just gave you with the Old Elk Ranch. I guess if you weren't the one accessing it, it was a bunch of BS...but for the guy that was, not so much.

As far as reaching out to my county commissioners, I'm currently involved in a lawsuit against them, so I doubt they'll be very receptive to my concerns.

 

[BuzzH]

That bill died in committee this morning.

Yes, on a budget year I expected that.

Time and pressure...

 

[Dougfirtree]

I donated because I would really like to see a resolution on this issue. But I do think there's something to lose. In particular, if the parcel in question is a State section, the irritated landowner can just purchases the section outright. As an example, see the Old Elk Ranch purchase east of Laramie for $1.5M precisely because the landowner didn't like the public legally accessing the parcel. The State didn't balk, they just allowed the auction to proceed because from a money generating perspective, it's always in the interest of the State to sell off its sections rather than try to make much less money with grazing fees. So I do worry that we could lose existing accessible State parcels in retaliation for this -- the legislature is not particularly concerned with public access as much as revenue for the State and the benefit of existing stakeholders that make up the legislature.

To me the absolute best-case scenario is that the ruling goes in favor of public access, which forces the large landowners with really deep pockets to push for land swaps to consolidate public and private ownership parcels. But the worse case it that we remove the gray area in a manner that formally blocks public access AND landowners to all they can do to simply purchase public land. In theory, they could push for land sales now, but I don't think enough corner crossers have motivated most of them to pursue this -- as you say, most people are too afraid to corner cross now. That could change...

I'm not so sure consolidation is the best-case scenario... I'm actually worried about that if the case goes our way. Consolidation will offer endless opportunities for the wealthy and powerful to exchange valuable land for land that is less valuable, from a recreation standpoint. I think I'd rather just see corner crossing expressly deemed to be legal.

 

[bullbugle307]

That’s a good point, I stand corrected on my assumption.

No worries man, just wanted to clarify.

 

[Deepnsteep]

Yes, on a budget year I expected that.

Time and pressure...

I see there was a motion to reconsider this bill in the House AG committee tomorrow morning at 7:30. One of the sponsors was gone the other day and the vote was 4-4. Hopefully it passes this time!

 

[ccc23454]

Wyo file has put up body cam video and article about it if anyone hasnt seen it yet.

Corner-crossing video: ‘Do they realize how much money my boss has?’ - WyoFile

Body cam shows Game and Fish officer, sheriff’s deputy explaining why they won’t charge hunters as Elk Mountain Ranch manager protests. Citations eventually came.

wyofile.com

 

[seeth07]

Wyo file has put up body cam video and article about it if anyone hasnt seen it yet.

Corner-crossing video: ‘Do they realize how much money my boss has?’ - WyoFile

Body cam shows Game and Fish officer, sheriff’s deputy explaining why they won’t charge hunters as Elk Mountain Ranch manager protests. Citations eventually came.

wyofile.com

thanks for sharing. Wow, that video is eye opening!

 

[Dougfirtree]

Wyo file has put up body cam video and article about it if anyone hasnt seen it yet.

Corner-crossing video: ‘Do they realize how much money my boss has?’ - WyoFile

Body cam shows Game and Fish officer, sheriff’s deputy explaining why they won’t charge hunters as Elk Mountain Ranch manager protests. Citations eventually came.

wyofile.com

Translation from Public Servant to Plain English:

"I think they know how much money your boss has..." = "Dude, you're a douche."

 

[seeth07]

what was so interesting to see was how the sheriff and the game warden both didn't want to touch this. they both kept asking the other if they were going to do something.

I actually didn't realize that I met Jake Miller when I was in Wyoming last year in Saratoga at the gas station. I already shared this but the experience I had with Mr. Miller was great. I was filling up next to him and decided to ask him why no one was duck hunting all the birds right outside of Saratoga because although I couldn't find anything saying I couldn't hunt there, it just didn't seem right (way too many birds visible from the road!). He explained to me that it was totally legal to hunt ducks there and when I explained to him where I had been previously hunting ducks, he laughed at me. He thought I was working too hard and gave me some spots I should go check out for "better" hunting

 

[TOGIE]

what was so interesting to see was how the sheriff and the game warden both didn't want to touch this. they both kept asking the other if they were going to do something.

I actually didn't realize that I met Jake Miller when I was in Wyoming last year in Saratoga at the gas station. I already shared this but the experience I had with Mr. Miller was great. I was filling up next to him and decided to ask him why no one was duck hunting all the birds right outside of Saratoga because although I couldn't find anything saying I couldn't hunt there, it just didn't seem right (way too many birds visible from the road!). He explained to me that it was totally legal to hunt ducks there and when I explained to him where I had been previously hunting ducks, he laughed at me. He thought I was working too hard and gave me some spots I should go check out for "better" hunting

dude... there's definitely no good duck hunting near saratoga.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

So it sounds like the "trespassing to hunt" charge is actually based the defendant's 2020 trip.

This raised some questions for me on the "Alternative Charge". From a previous wyofile article "Meantime, a prosecutor has asked the lower Carbon County Circuit Court to add an alternative criminal charge — trespassing to hunt — to the existing criminal trespass citation against the men, according to a Feb. 10 motion."

Questions:
-The term alternative makes it seem like an either or situation compared to asking for an additional charge. Is that the intention? That wouldn't make sense if the "alternative" charge was for acts in 2020.
-When they say the prosecutor asked to add a charge - is that ask just that the charge gets included in the same case so it doesn't have to be be covered in a an additional hearing?

 

[Oak]

Sounds like someone shook the county attorney's tree a bit and there's a case of CYA happening. Can't imagine the deputy misunderstanding the county's position on prosecuting corner crossing.

 

[Irrelevant]

I hope there's a viable challenger to the county attorney next election.

 

[TheJason]

Sounds like someone shook the county attorney's tree a bit and there's a case of CYA happening. Can't imagine the deputy misunderstanding the county's position on prosecuting corner crossing.

Although authorities issued no citations in 2020, “the charges were pending,” her filing states.

Riiiiiiight…

 

[TheJason]

Gotta love the “I’ll just shut it all down” followed by “you guys hunt here”. No quid pro quo there. Move along.

 

[NECALI]

Wyo file has put up body cam video and article about it if anyone hasnt seen it yet.

Corner-crossing video: ‘Do they realize how much money my boss has?’ - WyoFile

Body cam shows Game and Fish officer, sheriff’s deputy explaining why they won’t charge hunters as Elk Mountain Ranch manager protests. Citations eventually came.

wyofile.com

So, the ranch manager threatens the owner will close all this down to hunting if corner crossing is legal. Doesn’t he mean the owner will close his property down to hunting? Who cares! If it opens up all the public land like it should be to legal access, then the general public wins. Not just those who hire outfitters.
Edit. Sorry JLS, just posted before I saw your reply. Sounds like we noticed the same thing.

 

[seeth07]

So, the ranch manager threatens the owner will close all this down to hunting if corner crossing is legal. Doesn’t he mean the owner will close his property down to hunting? Who cares! If it opens up all the public land like it should be to legal access, then the general public wins. Not just those who hire outfitters.
Edit. Sorry JLS, just posted before I saw your reply. Sounds like we noticed the same thing.

A small portion of their property is open to late season cow elk hunts...MAYBE he was talking about that lol

 

[Wind Gypsy]

So, the ranch manager threatens the owner will close all this down to hunting if corner crossing is legal. Doesn’t he mean the owner will close his property down to hunting? Who cares! If it opens up all the public land like it should be to legal access, then the general public wins. Not just those who hire outfitters.
Edit. Sorry JLS, just posted before I saw your reply. Sounds like we noticed the same thing.

There was other comments I read previously about building something to block access to the common corner such that a simple ladder isn't going to do the trick. That was my guess at what "closing it all down" is in relation to but certainly it could be about some folks like the sheriffs deputy and warden getting access to the ranch too.

Edit: limited access like late cow hunts makes sense too.

 

[seeth07]

There was other comments I read previously about building something to block access to the common corner such that a simple ladder isn't going to do the trick.

If somehow the result ends up being that it is acceptable to corner cross in WY, I'm sure we are going to see landowners get pretty creative to restrict access. Some of them will probably do some obvious easy things (as well as being illegal) like the post and chain thing that exists at Elk mountain. You see illegal gates and restricted access as it already is on forest roads, etc. already. I'm sure there will be others as well that do things that are legal to restrict access to. Like a person could drive a 10' tall fence post 100% on his property on each side of the corner with a distance of like 8" between them making it impossible to squeeze through.