Wyoming Corner Crossing Defense Fund

[Wind Gypsy]

but, "so much money," "so much land"

@wllm1313, @noharleyyet or @Ben Lamb need to whip up a few great memes for this - that manager is a total fool, and now a fool for all to watch.

I'm sure all the public servants around there had no idea a billionaire owned the Elk Mountain Ranch and he was just making sure they had all the info necessary to make the right decision

The optics of the deputies knowing that the CA "doesn't prosecute corner crossing", it being well established that these hunters covered their bases by the deputies/warden, and then the CA deciding to prosecute corner crossing after all once billionaire landowner gives CA a call are fantastic!

 

[BuzzH]

It may very well take that to get this right. Seems though like the county would drop charges or not appeal local court ruling rather than creating statewide or nationwide precedent. But maybe the "boss" has "so much money" and "so much land" he goads them off the cliff. We can only hope he does - otherwise, continued ambiguity just harms some users of public lands.

Both sides can string bait...

Wednesday nights call was interesting.

 

[ccc23454]

Still think something about hunter harassment, driving on blm and the stakes/chains needs done

 

[Wind Gypsy]

What do you folks reckon WWF and TRCP were worried about in picking a side on this deal? This is the best exposure I’ve seen on the corner crossing issue and it sure as heck doesn’t favor landowners trying to claim public as their own.

Are they worried about poking a bought legislature and getting negative results? IMO that only brings more ugly to light on this issue. If a legislature is going to take steps to blatantly make laws to support the greedy wants of a tiny wealthy minority at the cost of the vast majority of their constituents, let em do it now that their ugly motives are out in the open.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I'm sure all the public servants around there had no idea a billionaire owned the Elk Mountain Ranch and he was just making sure they had all the info necessary to make the right decision

The optics of the deputies knowing that the CA "doesn't prosecute corner crossing", it being well established that these hunters covered their bases by the deputies/warden, and then the CA deciding to prosecute corner crossing after all once billionaire landowner gives CA a call are fantastic!

For us flat landers who don't follow WY real estate, which billionaire is behind this mess? (I actually did google before asking but nothing popped up).

 

[ccc23454]

What do you folks reckon WWF and TRCP were worried about in picking a side on this deal? This is the best exposure I’ve seen on the corner crossing issue and it sure as heck doesn’t favor landowners trying to claim public as their own.

Are they worried about poking a bought legislature and getting negative results? IMO that only brings more ugly to light on this issue. If a legislature is going to take steps to blatantly make laws to support the greedy wants of a tiny wealthy minority at the cost of the vast majority of their constituents, let em do it now that their ugly motives are out in the open.

One thing this has done is bring a lot of light to all the commisioner tags and how they are handed out. The fact that BHA lost such a huge fund raising tool over supporting hunters is proof there needs to be changes in G&F policy, possibly leadership and additional public oversight.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

For us flat landers who don't follow WY real estate, which billionaire is behind this mess? (I actually did google before asking but nothing popped up).

Fred Eshelman

Edit: here’s a more interesting article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/true-vote-lawsuit-fraud-eshelman/2021/02/15/a7017adc-6724-11eb-886d-5264d4ceb46d_story.html

 

[MTLabrador]

that manager is a total fool, and now a fool for all to watch.

He has been for quite a while. I’m glad that interview with him was recorded on bodycam for everyone to see.

 

[VikingsGuy]

He has been for quite a while. I’m glad that interview with him was recorded on bodycam for everyone to see.

I would have liked to have one for a similar ass while antelope hunting in WY 2 years ago. He was adamant that his hunting lease trumped the state road easement and that I was trespassing by parking on side of a public road before entering nearby public land adjacent to his.

After he finally shut up and walked away I started laughing - my buddy asked me why and I said, "TopGun warned me about parking on side of public roads". My buddy had no clue what I was talking about.

 

[Dougfirtree]

Fred Eshelman

Edit: here’s a more interesting article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/true-vote-lawsuit-fraud-eshelman/2021/02/15/a7017adc-6724-11eb-886d-5264d4ceb46d_story.html

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/l5Cn91y8iJDnhDqJfW" width="480" height="480" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="

">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[VikingsGuy]

Fred Eshelman

Edit: here’s a more interesting article

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/true-vote-lawsuit-fraud-eshelman/2021/02/15/a7017adc-6724-11eb-886d-5264d4ceb46d_story.html

So, he bought into, "stole the vote" but then came to regret it . . .
Now he bought into, "you get to control all the federal checkerboard if you buy the ranch", let's hope he comes to regret this too.

 

[300stw]

can a few of you guys go coyote hunting out there this weekend, more "bait",

 

[Wind Gypsy]

can a few of you guys go coyote hunting out there this weekend, more "bait",

That fish has been caught a couple times already, wonder how picky it would be about the right presentation.

 

[elkduds]

So, he bought into, "stole the vote" but then came to regret it . . .
Now he bought into, "you get to control all the federal checkerboard if you buy the ranch", let's hope he comes to regret this too.

More dollars than sense.

Buzz, thanks for your efforts and for the regular, detailed updates. This issue has legs, it could actually make a difference and break the landlock private owners have long enjoyed on diagonal public land sections.

This from p. 19 resonates: "Despite Elk Mountain Ranch's claims, this common corner is literally composed of equal parts private property and public property. Consequently, the public retains, as both a matter of course and logic, a correspondingly equal right to use and access this common corner."

And from p.23, "The simple fact is that the UIA prohibits Elk Mountain Ranch and other private landowners from preventing corner crossing from one section of public land to another section of public land."

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

Got the green light to post the motion to dismiss, its public record.

Good read for those interested, 66 pages in all...more to come in the next couple days.

Steve Grende...I knew that name sounded familiar. I had a run in with him in that same area a few years ago. He sat and watched me from a distance for a while. As I hiked back to my truck he caught up to me and asked to see my GPS tracks to make I wasn't trespassing. I said "nope!" I was on BLM the entire time, and not corner crossing. I know that feeling of being watched...it isn't enjoyable.

On another note, am I reading it right when it says the warden told the hunters they could retrieve their meat and, but not necessarily continue hunting? But they continued to hunt anyways? Not sure what to think about that.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

This from p. 19 resonates: "Despite Elk Mountain Ranch's claims, this common corner is literally composed of equal parts private property and public property. Consequently, the public retains, as both a matter of course and logic, a correspondingly equal right to use and access this common corner."

The only issue I see with this is Fred E and his folks are members of "the public" and are free to access public land but the inverse is not true. If the BLM parcels became off limits to everyone except those with specific permission, then the elk mountain crowd would be subject to the same restrictions they are trying to put on the public, unless there are laws about blocking access to private land at play.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Always thought it would be hilarious if the most vocally anti public land ranchers with checkerboarded inholdings had the BLM/USFS sold to private interests that didn't allow them to corner cross or access the previously public land.

 

[BuzzH]

More dollars than sense.

Buzz, thanks for your efforts and for the regular, detailed updates. This issue has legs, it could actually make a difference and break the landlock private owners have long enjoyed on diagonal public land sections.

This from p. 19 resonates: "Despite Elk Mountain Ranch's claims, this common corner is literally composed of equal parts private property and public property. Consequently, the public retains, as both a matter of course and logic, a correspondingly equal right to use and access this common corner."

And from p.23, "The simple fact is that the UIA prohibits Elk Mountain Ranch and other private landowners from preventing corner crossing from one section of public land to another section of public land."

No problem and its a handful of dedicated folks that are working this. Its been as interesting/rewarding as it is frustrating at times having to be the only ones willing to live out on the edge.

I never thought I'd experience some of the things I have when we took this on, some really good, some leaving me shaking my head in total disbelief.

Not to dwell on the bad, but having to go this largely alone isn't comfortable.

The good, is we have received massive support from public land advocates...some have stepped up individually and as companies in a pretty big way. I didn't expect that and when we started the gofundme I was sweating even raising enough for retainers.

Many hunttalkers have stepped up huge as well with donations, time, etc. and in some cases both. Mulecreek and JM77, just to name a couple, deserve a lot more thanks than they'll likely ever get. These guys are solid on public land, hunting, fishing, trapping and all things conservation.

But, what I also found impressive is how many supporters there were that donated what they could, and everyone that threw in even $5 to the gofund me account really left an impression on us. Its pretty obvious folks were giving what they could, when they likely didn't have a lot. The donation from Australia was also a wake-up call to me, that the reach and attraction to public lands in the US is important to more than just our Citizens.

Another positive is the sheer number of attorneys that have reached out to us to offer up whatever help they can to see this thing through. All of them offering help pro-bono. I haven't kept a running total, but at least a dozen, probably more. Our Wyoming Chapter Coordinator has kept track and is contact with them as the case develops and/or putting them in contact with the lawyers defending the hunters.

These things have kept those of us involved most closely fueled to continue on and see this thing through.

On our board call last night, I guess I have the quote of the year according to one of our board members when I said, without really thinking, as we were discussing what we could have done better or differently:

"We have done pretty damn good for not knowing what the F_&^ we're doing"....

More to follow.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

On another note, am I reading it right when it says the warden told the hunters they could retrieve their meat and, but not necessarily continue hunting? But they continued to hunt anyways? Not sure what to think about that.

That is how i interpreted that but it wasn't written very clear.

 

[mhungerford]

What very few that aren't.

I would bet nearly all of them are marked where there's a private/public corner.

The only ones that likely aren't are in the middle of large blocks of public.

The majority of them are marked. Even the ones in the middle of large public areas. Most people just don't understand what they are looking for and that a section is not always a mile by a mile.