It’s a limited entry unit that can be drawn w zero points and has leftover tags every single yr is whyYou guys are glossing over the bigger problem here. How did Nonresidents draw 2 years in a row? A travesty of justice! This must end!
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It’s a limited entry unit that can be drawn w zero points and has leftover tags every single yr is whyYou guys are glossing over the bigger problem here. How did Nonresidents draw 2 years in a row? A travesty of justice! This must end!
Again, as a hunter, I think this is BS. But as written, the WY law on paper strongly suggests this is tresspass. Until an appellate court actually accepts some of the very good legal arguments being made to re-shape the current law to make it clearly not trespass (or until dozens of juries refuse to find guilty as acts of nullification of the literal law) these prosecutions will (and probably should) be brought if land owners ”press charges”.I thought the alleged facts were the same? That they crossed the exact same corners in the same areas? This has to be the wildest thing I’ve ever saw! Surely there needs to be some level of an investigation to corruption in this case?
The 5th amendment applies only to the exact event and to the exact charges that were made (or could have been made). If I rob the same bank in the same manner in two different years, a not guilty verdict for one of the robberies in no way eliminates the charges for the other one. Heck, in many instances, the feds can even re-try the same event but with federal charges. (I really think SCOTUS has this point wrong)I mean wouldn’t this go against the 5th amendment? I know it’s different yrs but it the exact same offense that were found innocent of with less evidence the previous yr according to wyofile
You and I have two completely different takes on Wyoming law. I can find nothing to suggest cc is a criminal trespass.Again, as a hunter, I think this is BS. But as written, the WY law on paper strongly suggests this is tresspass.
The hunters don't have to prove their innocence, they don't need GPS evidence or pictures. In 2020, there was no witness to their crossings. They never touched private land. There is simply a body cam conversation.I don’t know the facts of 2020, but for example, did they use a ladder both times? Did they take supporting pictures both times? Did they have evidence of GPS usage both times? Was there state of mind and intent identical in both instances? It is rare that two events are truly identical.
If you're not 100% sure, you shouldn't say it. How do you know what was there?I'm not 100% sure but I believe in 2020 the only difference is they crossed the corner without a ladder, since the fence posts with a chain wasn't there at that time.
Exactly why should they have to prove their innocent on something no one even witnessed them do in 2020?You and I have two completely different takes on Wyoming law. I can find nothing to suggest cc is a criminal trespass.
The hunters don't have to prove their innocence, they don't need GPS evidence or pictures. In 2020, there was no witness to their crossings. They never touched private land. There is simply a body cam conversation.
Because King Eshelman told the DA to charge them. The DA told the sheriff to cite them. Unless/until the good citizens of Carbon County elect different officials, it's good to be the king.Exactly why should they have to prove their innocent on something no one even witnessed them do in 2020?
Why shouldn't I say what I believe is true? I don't understand? We're having a discussion here, I'm interested if others heard the same thing that I thought I did. I've read a lot of articles on this case and listened to the trial.If you're not 100% sure, you shouldn't say it. How do you know what was there?
I do not profess to be an expert on WY law, but there is a statute that claims the “air space” for the land owner. There are of course legal rationals to ignore this, but as that instruction was given, I can only assume a sitting judges views the statute as valid and applicable.You and I have two completely different takes on Wyoming law. I can find nothing to suggest cc is a criminal trespass.
The hunters don't have to prove their innocence, they don't need GPS evidence or pictures. In 2020, there was no witness to their crossings. They never touched private land. There is simply a body cam conversation.
I don’t see this as a wyoming law that makes cc trespassing. I don’t know the exact language in the law the judge instructed the jury to take to deliberations but it basically said the landowner owns the airspace above the ground, but there has to be some reasonable sense applied. I would think this would refer to harassing landowners w drones low flying helicopters harassing wildlife etc. if u try and extend that law to corners of property that means no one can lawfully cross corners to access property whether that’s private landowners or public. The law wasn’t intended to block access. It was intended to keep landowners from being harassed w low flying aircraft etc in my opinion. And I think the jury saw thatAgain, as a hunter, I think this is BS. But as written, the WY law on paper strongly suggests this is tresspass. Until an appellate court actually accepts some of the very good legal arguments being made to re-shape the current law to make it clearly not trespass (or until dozens of juries refuse to find guilty as acts of nullification of the literal law) these prosecutions will (and probably should) be brought if land owners ”press charges”.
I don’t know the facts of 2020, but for example, did they use a ladder both times? Did they take supporting pictures both times? Did they have evidence of GPS usage both times? Was their state of mind and intent identical in both instances? It is rare that two events are truly identical.
If even if identical in every way, prosecutors can and do repeatedly charge essentially the same violation (but different events) in front of different juries. Not guilty by a jury does nothing to change the law or bind the prosecutor.
A prosecutor pursing charges with a good faith basis in the law (even if others disagree with the law or have their own arguments of why the law should not apply) is not corruption.Surely there needs to be some level of an investigation to corruption in this case?
I am fairly sure I read that they openly admitted they crossed the corner the year before. Also, about 80% of criminal cases do not have eyewitness evidence provided.Exactly why should they have to prove their innocent on something no one even witnessed them do in 2020?
I see it as she’s an idiot. Everything in this case shows corruption to me. The game and fish wouldn’t issue a citation. The county sheriff wouldn’t issue the citation. This happened two yrs in a row! The sheriff only issued the citation after being instructed by the DA after he refused repeatedly and after I’m sure she was bought off by elshmen. And now she wants to retry them for the same offense they were found not guilty of. The facts are the same actually. They crossed the same corners two diffrent yrs. There is nothing different about 2020 then 2021 other than the game and fish officer witnessed them cross in 2021. Not even a witness in 2020. This is the biggest waste of tax payers dollars and mockery of justice as I’ve saw ever. What a freakin joke.A prosecutor pursing charges with a good faith basis in the law (even if others disagree with the law or have their own arguments of why the law should not apply) is not corruption.
Of course there are events of corruption in life, but assuming that is the case because we disagree with the written law and the judge’s application of that written law is not appropriate.
Here's one article that seems to indicate the hunters didn't use a ladder in 2020:If you're not 100% sure, you shouldn't say it. How do you know what was there?
Historically this body of law‘s entire purpose was to prevent access. The law didn’t start when drones were invented - or helicopters either. I believe it is anachronistic law, but laws don’t change just because the times do. Judge rulings, regulatory rule changes, legislative statutory changes are what change the law. The 1% of Americans who big game hunt out west shared common sense does not change the law. And jury verdicts don’t change the law.I don’t see this as a wyoming law that makes cc trespassing. I don’t know the exact language in the law the judge instructed the jury to take to deliberations but it basically said the landowner owns the airspace above the ground, but there has to be some reasonable sense applied. I would think this would refer to harassing landowners w drones low flying helicopters harassing wildlife etc. if u try and extend that law to corners of property that means no one can lawfully cross corners to access property whether that’s private landowners or public. The law wasn’t intended to block access. It was intended to keep landowners from being harassed w low flying aircraft etc in my opinion. And I think the jury saw that
The hunter in me says, “hallelujah“. The lawyer in me says it’s not that simple.I see it as she’s an idiot. Everything in this case shows corruption to me. The game and fish wouldn’t issue a citation. The county sheriff wouldn’t issue the citation. This happened two yrs in a row! The sheriff only issued the citation after being instructed by the DA after he refused repeatedly and after I’m sure she was bought off by elshmen. And now she wants to retry them for the same offense they were found not guilty of. The facts are the same actually. They crossed the same corners two diffrent yrs. There is nothing different about 2020 then 2021 other than the game and fish officer witnessed them cross in 2021. Not even a witness in 2020. This is the biggest waste of tax payers dollars and mockery of justice as I’ve saw ever. What a freakin joke.
I do respect your opinions. Air space law is found in Title 10 of the Wyoming statutes and defines the right of aircraft to fly over private land, with exceptions. There is no criminal remedy for violating air space in Wyoming, it is a civil matter. There is no definition in Wyoming law that includes air space for criminal matters. Until this case, there is no record of someone cited for a "bodily" violation of air space.I do not profess to be an expert on WY law, but there is a statute that claims the “air space” for the land owner. There are of course legal rationals to ignore this, but as that instruction was given, I can only assume a sitting judges views the statute as valid and applicable.
Any differences in facts/evidence between the two events are the reason a second charge might be appropriate
I never said they have to prove innocence. But if there are two bank robberies and in the first the defendant has an alibi and that alibi is a basis for jury innocence, the lack of that type of alibi in a second case could make a big difference in jury outcome.
Finally, I gather you are a lawyer. As such, you must have experience with prosecutors pushing laws repeatedly with similar facts and taking there chance with the jury pool. I am not aware of any successful prosecutor that stops pursuing a particular offense just because of one “bad beat”.