WY Game and Fish wants your thoughts on the preference point system (Moose and Sheep)

[seeth07]

Comments like this make me support banning nonresidents from hunting in western states.

If it wasn't for the revenue NR brought in, I think states would do this in a heartbeat. I'm absolutely shocked no state has asked the question "hey residents, what about quadrupling your tag costs but no more NR allocation. Anyone in?"

Or maybe one has and I missed it

 

[BuzzH]

If it is so wonderful and fair, why don't you trade the non-WY tags you hunt with to some poor schmuck from Missouri that started hunting a few years ago. But of course you won't - you bought into the Ponzi scheme early and are getting your pay-out. Lot's of early investors with Madoff got great returns - not so much for the later "investors".

What payout might those be?

I'll list all the tags I've drawn with preference points:

1. Moose tag in Wyoming
2. Sheep tag in Wyoming
3. Arizona bull elk x2
4. Coues deer x2
5. Colorado Deer x1

Here's the list with "bonus points"

1. Missouri breaks bull rifle tag in Montana
2. Special deer permit in Montana.

Here's the list of tags I've drawn Random:

1. Missouri breaks bull rifle tag
2. Desert Sheep Arizona
3. Second WY bull moose
4. Goat in Montana
5. Moose in Montana
6. Oryx in New Mexico
7. Arizona bull tag x2
8. New Mexico pronghorn
9. AZ coues deer x3
10. Muskox in Alaska
11. Every other tag I've ever drawn in my life.

That's 22 decent tags for several hundred applications over 41 years...shit odds to be sure and I don't know how I'm supposed to feel "special" about that. It's a lot of work for little "pay out"...damn little.

In other words, the point systems you're bitching about have done me very little good. A vast majority of my tags were either drawn random...only 7 tags in my entire time of hunting in 41 years were a result of a preference point system, 2 supposedly as a result of bonus points. Not one is close to the best available tags for the species/States I've drawn. The point systems aren't your problem, applying not smartly is.

What you're pissed about is not the point system, you're wanting little johnnie to get tags in their first few years, that I've spent 41 years to draw. The way you get to hunt is to apply for tags with good odds and also apply for lots of stuff for lots of years. Most won't do it...like most things that are hard. Sorry Charlie, there is no "easy" button to push to draw tags. Its apply like everyone else and quit complaining.

Its the instant gratification crowd mentality and you're displaying it.

If you, your kids or any new hunter isn't hunting multiple tags in multiple states each year...go look in the mirror and quit blaming your woes on a point system. What areas did you apply your kids for in the leftover Wyoming Draw? Leftover Colorado draw?

Quit cryin'...start applyin'.

 

[Treeshark]

People need to start focusing on what they CAN do, rather than focusing on what they can't.

I agree with you on this Buzz.

The tough thing from a NR perspective is that the list of things we CANT do is growing rapidly, and a lot of the ones that we CAN are getting tough to do on our own without paying someone for the chance to participate.

 

[DFS]

And comments like this make me laugh when people complain about all of the “people moving to our state and ruining it “.

Why is it so hard to not be a douche?

If putting wildlife before killing them makes me a douche than I agree.

If it wasn't for the revenue NR brought in, I think states would do this in a heartbeat. I'm absolutely shocked no state has asked the question "hey residents, what about quadrupling your tag costs but no more NR allocation. Anyone in?"

Or maybe one has and I missed it

I’ve literally never seen anything improve from all that revenue you bring in. Quite the opposite actually.

 

[VikingsGuy]

If you, your kids or any new hunter isn't hunting multiple tags in multiple states each year...go look in the mirror and quit blaming your woes on a point system. What areas did you apply your kids for in the leftover Wyoming Draw? Leftover Colorado draw?

Quit cryin'...start applyin'.

I'm not crying - I am saying true random is a better approach to a supposed shared resource than one that favors the incumbents.

Whenever we go back and forth on these topics you always imply I am some how pouting about my own situation. It just isn't the case. I could just buy landowner tags or other high cost tags if I just wanted for me/my kids. But not every American can afford that game and I think it is better for the broad hunter community to have a more egalitarian approach to NR tag allocation. But you can keep playing your game. It just makes many of us question why we should support with $$$ and votes a system that provides big benefits to a small few and seems openly hostile to the average hunter.

 

[JLS]

If putting wildlife before killing them makes me a douche than I agree.

Comments like this make me support banning nonresidents from hunting in western states.

Way to try and shift the narrative. Actions done out of power, vindictiveness, and spite have absolutely no place in public trust decisions.

 

[Huntnut60]

What payout might those be?

I'll list all the tags I've drawn with preference points:

1. Moose tag in Wyoming
2. Sheep tag in Wyoming
3. Arizona bull elk x2
4. Coues deer x2
5. Colorado Deer x1

Here's the list with "bonus points"

1. Missouri breaks bull rifle tag in Montana
2. Special deer permit in Montana.

Here's the list of tags I've drawn Random:

1. Missouri breaks bull rifle tag
2. Desert Sheep Arizona
3. Second WY bull moose
4. Goat in Montana
5. Moose in Montana
6. Oryx in New Mexico
7. Arizona bull tag x2
8. New Mexico pronghorn
9. AZ coues deer x3
10. Muskox in Alaska
11. Every other tag I've ever drawn in my life.

That's 22 decent tags for several hundred applications over 41 years...shit odds to be sure and I don't know how I'm supposed to feel "special" about that. It's a lot of work for little "pay out"...damn little.

In other words, the point systems you're bitching about have done me very little good. A vast majority of my tags were either drawn random...only 7 tags in my entire time of hunting in 41 years were a result of a preference point system, 2 supposedly as a result of bonus points. Not one is close to the best available tags for the species/States I've drawn. The point systems aren't your problem, applying not smartly is.

What you're pissed about is not the point system, you're wanting little johnnie to get tags in their first few years, that I've spent 41 years to draw. The way you get to hunt is to apply for tags with good odds and also apply for lots of stuff for lots of years. Most won't do it...like most things that are hard. Sorry Charlie, there is no "easy" button to push to draw tags. Its apply like everyone else and quit complaining.

Its the instant gratification crowd mentality and you're displaying it.

If you, your kids or any new hunter isn't hunting multiple tags in multiple states each year...go look in the mirror and quit blaming your woes on a point system. What areas did you apply your kids for in the leftover Wyoming Draw? Leftover Colorado draw?

Quit cryin'...start applyin'.

This. Exactly.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree with you on this Buzz.

The tough thing from a NR perspective is that the list of things we CANT do is growing rapidly, and a lot of the ones that we CAN are getting tough to do on our own without paying someone for the chance to participate.

Sounds like you need to reshape things where you live.

Get after it, don't expect someone to do it for you.

 

[Treeshark]

My wife and I like where where we live, our kids are doing really well here. I would feel really selfish making that move now just so I could hunt more, but perhaps when they’re grown I will (I would love living there, but would miss it here too).

In the meantime I will have to take what I can get as a NR. I’m really thankful for those opportunities to hunt other states, but must admit that I am a little bummed to see it get harder and harder each year.

 

[BuzzH]

I'm not crying - I am saying true random is a better approach to a supposed shared resource than one that favors the incumbents.

Whenever we go back and forth on these topics you always imply I am some how pouting about my own situation. It just isn't the case. I could just buy landowner tags or other high cost tags if I just wanted for me/my kids. But not every American can afford that game and I think it is better for the broad hunter community to have a more egalitarian approach to NR tag allocation. But you can keep playing your game. It just makes many of us question why we should support with $$$ and votes a system that provides big benefits to a small few and seems openly hostile to the average hunter.

There's random tags to be had in every State for nearly every species they have....thousands of them.

 

[BuzzH]

My wife and I like where where we live, our kids are doing really well here. I would feel really selfish making that move now just so I could hunt more, but perhaps when they’re grown I will (I would love living there, but would miss it here too).

In the meantime I will have to take what I can get as a NR. I’m really thankful for those opportunities to hunt other states, but must admit that I am a little bummed to see it get harder and harder each year.

No deer to hunt in Wisconsin? Waterfowl? Turkeys?

Maybe harder in other states, but you can still draw tags every year.

Did you apply for a leftover tag in Wyoming? On the list in Montana? Colorado leftover list?

Bear hunting is an OTC option in ID, MT, WY, OR, WA, CA...pitter patter.

NR's whine and leave so much opportunity on the table, I find it laughable.

 

[VikingsGuy]

There's random tags to be had in every State for nearly every species they have....thousands of them.

Yet there could be more if we didn't so strongly favor the incumbents. I grow weary of the "just ignore the man behind the current" approach to the current system - it is self serving of a small group.

 

[BuzzH]

Yet there could be more if we didn't so strongly favor the incumbents. I grow weary of the "just ignore the man behind the current" approach to the current system - it is self serving of a small group.

Strongly favor? You need to look at the draw results, sharpen your pencil, and look how much incumbents are "favored".

Good start is NV, UT and MT...bonus points mean doodley-squat.

 

[Carl 9.3x62]

I understand the intention. And "fair" is in the eye of the beholder. What many are saying is that a public govt. system that, well intentioned and reasonable at its inception, results in no citizen under the age of 55 having a reasonable chance of participating in a so called "shared resource" that it is not longer an appropriate or effective government policy and needs to be revised or removed.

I'm 36 and have killed two moose using preference points in WY. Seems more than reasonable to me.

 

[Treeshark]

No deer to hunt in Wisconsin? Waterfowl? Turkeys?

Maybe harder in other states, but you can still draw tags every year.

Did you apply for a leftover tag in Wyoming? On the list in Montana? Colorado leftover list?

Yep, I hunt all three. Love deer and waterfowl, turkey just not my thing but still do on occasion.

Struck out on Wyoming. On the list for Montana. Fingers crossed on the Colorado list (one tag I would really like and have have hunted before, wish me luck!).

My point is that it’s getting quite a bit harder for a NR to enjoy hunting big game in Western states. That bums me out because it’s so much fun. If we don’t agree on that, or disagree whether that is a good or bad thing, that’s cool.

I feel this devolving into an argument with you, Buzz (my doing, surely you’d never lower yourself to such a silly thing…).

Not really into that, have a great day!

 

[BuzzH]

Yep, I hunt all three. Love deer and waterfowl, turkey just not my thing but still do on occasion.

Struck out on Wyoming. On the list for Montana. Fingers crossed on the Colorado list (one tag I would really like and have have hunted before, wish me luck!).

My point is that it’s getting quite a bit harder for a NR to enjoy hunting big game in Western states. That bums me out because it’s so much fun. If we don’t agree on that, or disagree whether that is a good or bad thing, that’s cool.

I feel this devolving into an argument with you, Buzz (my doing, surely you’d never lower yourself to such a silly thing…).

Not really into that, have a great day!

Right, and the point systems are not why its harder to hunt the Western States, if only obviously.

 

[BuzzH]

Yep, I hunt all three. Love deer and waterfowl, turkey just not my thing but still do on occasion.

Struck out on Wyoming. On the list for Montana. Fingers crossed on the Colorado list (one tag I would really like and have have hunted before, wish me luck!).

My point is that it’s getting quite a bit harder for a NR to enjoy hunting big game in Western states. That bums me out because it’s so much fun. If we don’t agree on that, or disagree whether that is a good or bad thing, that’s cool.

I feel this devolving into an argument with you, Buzz (my doing, surely you’d never lower yourself to such a silly thing…).

Not really into that, have a great day!

Draw results on the Wyoming leftover tags won't be available until July 7...I guess you didn't apply.

My NR buddies will be hunting elk here again most likely, they apply for what they can hunt rather than complain.

 

[Treeshark]

Sweet! I hope you guys have an awesome time.

Didn’t put in for Wyoming leftover, just the main draw. Thanks for keepin’ me honest there, Buzz!

 

[BuzzH]

Sweet! I hope you guys have an awesome time.

Usually do. The only thing they complain about is the long drive to Wyoming, and sore shoulders from packing dead elk.

Crybabies...what's so hard about killing 5 elk in a day?

 

[Labman]

Yet there could be more if we didn't so strongly favor the incumbents. I grow weary of the "just ignore the man behind the current" approach to the current system - it is self serving of a small group.

Why shouldn’t the incumbents get some preferential treatment, especially since the system has been that way for 27 yrs? After all, the newcomers will be in their shoes at some point and the old timers will be fertilizer. You don’t stay young forever and at some point you draw, quit, or die. I’m glad I drew my sheep tags later in life and not when I was 14. My young son can worry about 16” 4x4 whitetails, pheasants, bears, elk and girls when he is in his teens. If he draws a moose or sheep tag in a random draw great, but I think he will appreciate it more having to wait his turn.