Wildife Task force 90-10, etc.

[idahohuntr]

I have no ill-will towards WY resident hunters. In fact, I'd rather they go for 100-0 if it kept the outfitters from getting the welfare they are asking for. I am just as angry about WY as I was with ID last year when our outfitters upped their welfare grab from the NR pool.

But...if this passes maybe restructure the whole darn system?

I'd like to see those outfitter tags go for a heck of a lot more than just the special license price. They should be a minimum 5-8x the non-outfitted non-resident price given how much of a draw advantage they will be. (e.g., $1268 for NR DIY tag = $6340-$10,000 for the outfitted tag)...all that extra tag money goes to permanent hunting access acquisition.

Get rid of points entirely for the NR DIY draw (I say that as someone with below max pts - 0 elk, 13 deer, 7 pronghorn) - keep it all random otherwise there will be very little reason for most DIY folks to even apply.

 

[rogerthat]

I have no ill-will towards WY resident hunters. In fact, I'd rather they go for 100-0 if it kept the outfitters from getting the welfare they are asking for. I am just as angry about WY as I was with ID last year when our outfitters upped their welfare grab from the NR pool.

But...if this passes maybe restructure the whole darn system?

I'd like to see those outfitter tags go for a heck of a lot more than just the special license price. They should be a minimum 5-8x the non-outfitted non-resident price given how much of a draw advantage they will be. (e.g., $1268 for NR DIY tag = $6340-$10,000 for the outfitted tag)...all that extra tag money goes to permanent hunting access acquisition.

Get rid of points entirely for the NR DIY draw (I say that as someone with below max pts - 0 elk, 13 deer, 7 pronghorn) - keep it all random otherwise there will be very little reason for most DIY folks to even apply.

If I got screwed out of my max elk points without getting to use them on a hunt I would blow a gasket lol.

 

[Pucky Freak]

Try as I might to be a bigger person, I can’t help but find a bit of humor in this and hope that the next bunch of tags that go for sale to the highest bidder comes at their cost instead of mine.

I think we all win when we choose to be the better person. I don’t want WY resident hunters eating their just desserts, b/c resident opportunity in my own state is on the chopping block next. We have a lot to gain by rallying around the principles of the democratization of hunting in our country.

If @BuzzH wants to rail against entitled NR’s, or shake a stick, well…whatever. I have a lot of respect for the guy for busting his balls in defense of the MO hunters in the Elk Mountain case. If that doesn’t show one’s true colors I don’t know what does.

 

[JM77]

Thanks to @Big Fin for trying to expose the reality of what is going on in Wyoming.

I sat and watched Buzz speak to the Task Force against the outfitter draw and then get a question trying to make him look bad. Another resident spoke against the outfitter draw and in subsequent meetings, TF members would walk out during his public comments. Oh, but wait until it comes back to bite us residents, deals with the devil and all. Whatever.

I could say right now, to all you wishing bad will on residents, it's not going to change the way I think about the outfitter draw and 90/10 deer, elk, & antelope. I don't like or have ever supported either. And to those NR who like to message me for advice, keep asking, these jerks won't put an end to that.

Sorry if anyone thinks I'm overreacting, but I'm a little pissed off right now.

 

[The Hedgehog]

If you’re thinking I’m “wishing bad will” on residents, maybe my post wasn’t clear.

 

[Shangobango]

Thanks to @Big Fin for trying to expose the reality of what is going on in Wyoming.

I sat and watched Buzz speak to the Task Force against the outfitter draw and then get a question trying to make him look bad. Another resident spoke against the outfitter draw and in subsequent meetings, TF members would walk out during his public comments. Oh, but wait until it comes back to bite us residents, deals with the devil and all. Whatever.

I could say right now, to all you wishing bad will on residents, it's not going to change the way I think about the outfitter draw and 90/10 deer, elk, & antelope. I don't like or have ever supported either. And to those NR who like to message me for advice, keep asking, these jerks won't put an end to that.

Sorry if anyone thinks I'm overreacting, but I'm a little pissed off right now.

I don’t wish ill will on WY residents, for my part. I don’t think 90/10 is the problem and if I was a Wyoming resident I would want it. The problem I have is outfitter welfare no matter what State we are talking about. That welfare goes against just about everything I believe in. Very disappointing.

 

[BrentD]

If you’re thinking I’m “wishing bad will” on residents, maybe my post wasn’t clear.

I didn't and I don't think anyone is wishing bad luck or bad anything to resident hunters. I think our ire is far more focused on outfitters and the people that colude with them.

 

[JM77]

If you’re thinking I’m “wishing bad will” on residents, maybe my post wasn’t clear.

"To get a few more resident permits, and giving into “industry” and political clout will come back around someday to Wyoming residents."

I'll keep an open mind to your explanation.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I’ve not been following the process and struggles. I did leave a message for 2 people last week to help me understand what was going on, both are folks who would know. So if I’m ignorant - Let me know. I’m sure both people have different but well entrenched views, and are too busy to get back to me.

But. If 90-10 comes as a package deal with the outfitter welfare I’m reading about here, it will eventually come back to bite the regular Wyoming guys in the end. That ain’t wishing ill will, but likely realistic.

come to MT to experience what the politicians, FWP, and well healed have done for the regular guy hunting.

 

[Treeshark]

I went back to the beginning of this thread and read the first few pages. Went from this, when some residents thought they were going to get a bunch more primo tags without having to give anything up…



To this, when they realized that they’ve been duped by WYOGA and their wilderness honeyholes would have a ton more guided nonresidents coming soon.

 

[rogerthat]

I could say right now, to all you wishing bad will on residents, it's not going to change the way I think about the outfitter draw and 90/10 deer, elk, & antelope.

Thanks for all you do JM77. You know what they say you can wish in one hand and sh!t in the other and see what you end up with. Wouldn’t worry too much about what others are wishing.

The outfitter set aside part of this makes the 90/10 part of this a nut kick for diy. My state is 90/10 so she goes how she goes on that but the special set aside becoming outfitter set aside as a compromise blows. Now wyoming is at the New Mexico system or worse not the standard 90/10 anymore.

 

[Brittany Chukarman]

This all strikes me as ask for the moon,settle for the stars. But the writing is on the wall. At my age I'm probably done and not by choice.

 

[cking13]

I’m going to go against the grain here and just say it- I do blame some Wyoming residents, especially those on the Task Force. Their greed is what got things to this point- lay with dogs (WYOGA), you’re gonna get fleas.

I just wonder what kind of kickbacks the task force will get

 

[JM77]

I’ve not been following the process and struggles. I did leave a message for 2 people last week to help me understand what was going on, both are folks who would know. So if I’m ignorant - Let me know. I’m sure both people have different but well entrenched views, and are too busy to get back to me.

But. If 90-10 comes as a package deal with the outfitter welfare I’m reading about here, it will eventually come back to bite the regular Wyoming guys in the end. That ain’t wishing ill will, but likely realistic.

come to MT to experience what the politicians, FWP, and well healed have done for the regular guy hunting.

I'll make some points: first, I wasn't one of the two people you messaged, because you would have had an answer by now. Second, if Larry was one of them, that's a waste. I hope Buzz was one.
Third, resident hunters are in not anyway involved with the "Great Compromise".

I don't disagree that this proposed deal could possibly affect residents, as detailed by Randy on this thread. I would be more than happy to see your specific thoughts on how residents will be affected, because without specifics, this is going to be hard to defeat.

 

[WIbiggame]

Pardon the ignorance. But, I know the 90/10 is for high demand permits, does that mean the Outfitter subsidy is also just just for the high demand units or does the 50% apply to general NR tags as well?

 

[JM77]

Pardon the ignorance. But, I know the 90/10 is for high demand permits, does that mean the Outfitter subsidy is also just just for the high demand units or does the 50% apply to general NR tags as well?

There will not be general NR general elk tags in the future, there will be region nr elk tags and the outfitter subsidy is for all tags. (that's a great point , by the way)

 

[WIbiggame]

I would be more than happy to see your specific thoughts on how residents will be affected,

One I can see right off the bat is that you will have residents witjh intimate knowledge of the land and animals ALWAYS taking NR's hunting instead of DIY people coming in blind. Harvest rates will go up less animals on the landscape. And every NR who gets a tag will be able to hunt the wilderness. That's just 2 without thinking to hard. As a NR I don't have a pot to piss in and hope we are all wrong and it doesn't affect the residents at all and they get everything they hoped out of the 90/10. You all deserve the 90/10. I would even support 95/5 if nothing went to outfitter subsidy.

 

[Archer86]

I went back to the beginning of this thread and read the first few pages. Went from this, when some residents thought they were going to get a bunch more primo tags without having to give anything up…

View attachment 225705

To this, when they realized that they’ve been duped by WYOGA and their wilderness honeyholes would have a ton more guided nonresidents coming soon.

View attachment 225706

Lol....I am sure you understand how special use permits work in the national forest and wilderness areas the outfitters are capped at how many clients they can guide each year which they are all operating at max in the general area now.

I don't like this idea all but this kind of stuff is what makes residents not really care about what nr hunters have to say. it's unfortunate that you are attacking the guys that are giving a voice to nr to some extent. Just pushes them away from here and they don't bring the info back.

 

[madtom]

One I can see right off the bat is that you will have residents witjh intimate knowledge of the land and animals ALWAYS taking NR's hunting instead of DIY people coming in blind. Harvest rates will go up less animals on the landscape.

This shouldn’t be a worry. The average resident hunter is very casual (lazy) and amazingly shitty at hunting.

 

[TheJason]

I would be more than happy to see your specific thoughts on how residents will be affected, because without specifics, this is going to be hard to defeat.

With a guaranteed client base at 50% of the NR tags (would landowner tags come out of this same pool?), they can now lease more aggressively as Randy pointed out.

I predict this will result in a long term net loss in Access Yes properties. If and when resident interest in some units declines, will these tags also go to NR allocation as leftovers? That will just create more of incentive to lease the ever loving shit out of units.

Edit: with percentages like this landowner tags aren’t even a necessity for billionaire landowners. Lease to an outfitter, get your tags, hunt your place (or whomever else he leases) and the fly home. Easy peasy.