Who And What Was George Custer?

[TheJason]

Shallow minds and shallow waters freeze first.

 

[TheJason]

@A Guy Out West, How does Marxism pertain to this discussion? Is it because Karl Marx advocated no differentiation based on social or economic classes, therefore genocide would not have taken place as the westward expansion occurred?

 

[LuketheDog]

What a stupid thread this is...

 

[Glockster]

It was a war of cultures. There had to be a winner and a loser, they lost.
There’s no reason to pretend native Americans were perfect, there was plenty of murdering, raping, torture, and theft done on their end.
Custer and Sherman did what was necessary. We should be glad such a hard men existed and they did what they had to do to help a young country survive and prosper.

 

[TheJason]

Society is very interesting and intriguing when it rationalizes rape and murder to achieve a goal. The fundamental question then has to be, what desired outcomes justify the actions? A US Army Captain at Sand Creek refused to participate in the slaughter, and was later a key witness in court martial trials.

Speaking solely for myself, I’d rather take a bullet than commit some of the atrocities that occurred during the Indian wars.

 

[shrapnel]

Society is very interesting and intriguing when it rationalizes rape and murder to achieve a goal. The fundamental question then has to be, what desired outcomes justify the actions? A US Army Captain at Sand Creek refused to participate in the slaughter, and was later a key witness in court martial trials.

Speaking solely for myself, I’d rather take a bullet than commit some of the atrocities that occurred during the Indian wars.

Some people go to the garden to collect vegetables while others will only find the manure that was used as fertilizer. You seem to always find fertilizer.

 

[Glockster]

Society is very interesting and intriguing when it rationalizes rape and murder to achieve a goal. The fundamental question then has to be, what desired outcomes justify the actions? A US Army Captain at Sand Creek refused to participate in the slaughter, and was later a key witness in court martial trials.

Speaking solely for myself, I’d rather take a bullet than commit some of the atrocities that occurred during the Indian wars.

Don’t pretend it was a one-sided affair.

Why don’t you tell everybody what led up to the sand creek massacre or are you intentionally leaving that out.

Hungate massacre
On June 11, Nathan rode out with a hired hand, Mr. Miller, looking for stray heads of cattle.[a] Several miles from the ranch, they saw smoke coming from the area of Hungate's cabin and suspected an attack by Native Americans. Miller said that he was riding for Denver and advised Hungate that his family was likely dead and if he went back to the cabin he would be killed, too. Hungate rode back to find that his cabin was on fire and his family had been killed and badly mutilated. He was captured and was similarly killed.[2][3] The couple was in their twenties, Laura was 2 1/2 years of age, and Florence was a 6-month-old infant.[1]

Miller made it to Denver and gave news of the attack to Van Wormer, who rode to the ranch to find the Hungate family dead. Nathan Hungate's body was badly mutilated with 80 bullets, and was found a distance from the house. The bodies of Ellen and the two girls were found mutilated, bound together, and thrown into a shallow well. All of the family's stock had been taken and the buildings were burned down.[3]

 

[TheJason]

Don’t pretend it was a one-sided affair.

Bold accusation. I’m not. Please show me where I indicated it was?

In case you missed it, I wrote this yesterday

I think that’s a very fair statement. The Native Americans employed some brutal tactics to defend their territories. Both against whites and other tribes alike. That said, US soldiers also did the same at times.

Based on your added text, if a group of men from one town murder a family, we should burn and kill the entire town? Sorry, that just doesn’t equate.

 

[TheJason]

Some people go to the garden to collect vegetables while others will only find the manure that was used as fertilizer. You seem to always find fertilizer.

And some carve their name in the bluff in the way.

I’m not sure how you conflate respect for basic human rights to become a glass half empty perspective.

Since you piped up, take a stab at my question? I’m not sure why it bothers folks that one can be troubled by the actions of our past.

 

[rwc101]

The Indian wars were not genocide

Some people go to the garden to collect vegetables while others will only find the manure that was used as fertilizer. You seem to always find fertilizer.

And here you are denying the manure.

 

[shrapnel]

And some carve their name in the bluff in the way.

I’m not sure how you conflate respect for basic human rights to become a glass half empty perspective.

Since you piped up, take a stab at my question? I’m not sure why it bothers folks that one can be troubled by the actions of our past.

Your questions and motives are nothing but inflammatory. Why you continue to criticize anything I post is beyond me. I never met you and you are nothing but critical. Frankly I don’t care about you or your motives and have answered your question here.

Find somewhere else to show your animosity, you have posted enough here.

 

[Glockster]

And some carve their name in the bluff in the way.

I’m not sure how you conflate respect for basic human rights to become a glass half empty perspective.

Since you piped up, take a stab at my question? I’m not sure why it bothers folks that one can be troubled by the actions of our past.

I’m not sure why you would be troubled by actions in the past. There’s nothing you can do to change them or right any of the perceived wrongs that you see. Everybody involved has been dead for sometime. No one alive today can relate it to how hard it was to live then , or the brutality one had to have.

I would guess that if you put anyone of us back in that time period and you read, heard about, maybe even knew a family that was massacred by the Indians. Or one of families that had their children stolen by the Native Americans your patience would probably would of grown very thin with that native population.
Not saying it was right or wrong it’s just the way it was.

 

[TheJason]

Your questions and motives are nothing but inflammatory. Why you continue to criticize anything I post is beyond me. I never met you and you are nothing but critical. Frankly I don’t care about you or your motives and have answered your question here.

Find somewhere else to show your animosity, you have posted enough here.

You didn’t answer my question, but that’s fine.

I’m not sure why you’re so fixated on my “inflammatory statements”. Custer’s place in history is messy and convoluted, deserved or not.

 

[TheJason]

I’m not sure why you would be troubled by actions in the past.

Because failing to study and understand history dooms one to repeat it. If horrific actions in the past by a facet of society don’t bother you, great.

 

[Glockster]

Because failing to study and understand history dooms one to repeat it. If horrific actions in the past by a facet of society don’t bother you, great.

That’s great and all but when you study history try to place yourself in that time. And not look at it through a 2021 lens.

I’ll put it to you this way. My dad told me a story about my great grandpa.Soon after he arrived in Kansas from Germany, he shot and killed a man who was trying to steal his chickens. This was around 1890. When I heard the story in the late 1980s it seemed like a pretty dickhead thing to do since you can go buy a chicken for a couple bucks. As my father explained losing those 4 chickens very well could’ve a turned into life or death situation for them at the worst. Best case scenario would be going to bed hungry.
Don’t look at history through the lens of the present. It’ll do you no good and only muddy the waters even more.

 

[A Guy Out West]

Well, I guess I asked for this. To explain it properly would take many hours of talking and study of Marxism on your part, including the reading of the Communist Manifesto. I will put this in a nut shell for you as best I can. You also have to understand the term useful idiot. It is a political term associated with Lennon, if my memory is accurate. A useful idiot is someone that supports a cause without really knowing what they are supporting, or fully understand what the ultimate goal of the cause is. Useful idiots can be associated with any political group or any organization that is trying to make change. The real change that the group is trying to make may not be something that the useful idiot may want. The useful idiot is simply tricked or lulled into supporting the cause, not realizing the impact the change will have upon them. Through indoctrination, the useful idiot becomes convinced that what they are being told is the truth and that the change sought by the group is just and righteous on all
levels. The indoctrination is usually based on half truths and flat out lies. The lies based on half truths are the most powerful of all. In the last several years in the US, socialists (Marxists) have gotten intertwined in all levels of our society. They have basically taken over our public school system and Universities. As per the Communist Manifesto, indoctrination should begin as soon as children are able to leave their mothers. The indoctrination that began in Kindergarten spreads through society as the indoctrinated age. It becomes prevalent in most levels of society. Those that are spared the indoctrination, become critical thinkers and avoid the useful idiot trap. As the indoctrinated become more in number, they began to gain power. They force silence on those that do not agree with them, ultimately killing them when they have complete control. To gain control, they have to cause strife in society, drive divisions between people. Pit race against race. The end game is to cause the collapse of the government. Once the government collapses, they step in and form a new government with total control of everything. Now, the people the useful idiots supported take over. How in the heck does this relate to the conversation about Custer’s last stand anniversary??? It relates because some of the comments were typical of the indoctrinated. Blame America first, blame the white man for everything wrong with this country, spout that racism is going strong in America, do whatever you can think of to dishonor and discredit American ideals and institutions. It’s just part of the big picture to destroy our country and I’m sick of it. I never thought I would see it on a hunting site. It just shows how far the tentacles have spread. Not a single person mentioned that Custer was just a soldier. He followed lawful orders that were given to him by his chain of command. If a modern day history revisionist wants to blame someone, blame the president at the time and his administration. Yes, America has some problems, what place doesn’t? It is still the best place for a person of color to live on the entire planet. I have been to 13 foreign countries, including Russia. I have also been to 47 of our states. I was lucky enough to have gone to a University that prided itself on presenting the facts to its students and let them make up their own minds. If you can’t get the whiff of Marxism in some of the comments made, pick up a copy of the Manifesto.

 

[TheJason]

That’s great and all but when you study history try to place yourself in that time. And not look at it through a 2021 lens.

Certainly, and I’m pretty sure I’ve acknowledged that. Regardless of points in time, things still can and should horrify people.

 

[RobertD]

Well, I guess I asked for this. To explain it properly would take many hours of talking and study of Marxism on your part, including the reading of the Communist Manifesto. I will put this in a nut shell for you as best I can. You also have to understand the term useful idiot. It is a political term associated with Lennon, if my memory is accurate. A useful idiot is someone that supports a cause without really knowing what they are supporting, or fully understand what the ultimate goal of the cause is. Useful idiots can be associated with any political group or any organization that is trying to make change. The real change that the group is trying to make may not be something that the useful idiot may want. The useful idiot is simply tricked or lulled into supporting the cause, not realizing the impact the change will have upon them. Through indoctrination, the useful idiot becomes convinced that what they are being told is the truth and that the change sought by the group is just and righteous on all
levels. The indoctrination is usually based on half truths and flat out lies. The lies based on half truths are the most powerful of all. In the last several years in the US, socialists (Marxists) have gotten intertwined in all levels of our society. They have basically taken over our public school system and Universities. As per the Communist Manifesto, indoctrination should begin as soon as children are able to leave their mothers. The indoctrination that began in Kindergarten spreads through society as the indoctrinated age. It becomes prevalent in most levels of society. Those that are spared the indoctrination, become critical thinkers and avoid the useful idiot trap. As the indoctrinated become more in number, they began to gain power. They force silence on those that do not agree with them, ultimately killing them when they have complete control. To gain control, they have to cause strife in society, drive divisions between people. Pit race against race. The end game is to cause the collapse of the government. Once the government collapses, they step in and form a new government with total control of everything. Now, the people the useful idiots supported take over. How in the heck does this relate to the conversation about Custer’s last stand anniversary??? It relates because some of the comments were typical of the indoctrinated. Blame America first, blame the white man for everything wrong with this country, spout that racism is going strong in America, do whatever you can think of to dishonor and discredit American ideals and institutions. It’s just part of the big picture to destroy our country and I’m sick of it. I never thought I would see it on a hunting site. It just shows how far the tentacles have spread. Not a single person mentioned that Custer was just a soldier. He followed lawful orders that were given to him by his chain of command. If a modern day history revisionist wants to blame someone, blame the president at the time and his administration. Yes, America has some problems, what place doesn’t? It is still the best place for a person of color to live on the entire planet. I have been to 13 foreign countries, including Russia. I have also been to 47 of our states. I was lucky enough to have gone to a University that prided itself on presenting the facts to its students and let them make up their own minds. If you can’t get the whiff of Marxism in some of the comments made, pick up a copy of the Manifesto.

Yeah, I've got friends that watch those same YouTube channels.

i see the connections you're trying to make here, but if you think criticizing past actions of our country's military makes someone a useful idiot of Marxism... you might think for a minute what it looks like when fear/unwillingness/inability to criticize your own government is a cultural norm, which is the logical extension of what you're advocating for. And really scrutinize that term "useful idiot" while you're at it.

 

[MTLabrador]

Lennon

The singer?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Well, I guess I asked for this. To explain it properly would take many hours of talking and study of Marxism on your part, including the reading of the Communist Manifesto. I will put this in a nut shell for you as best I can. You also have to understand the term useful idiot. It is a political term associated with Lennon, if my memory is accurate. A useful idiot is someone that supports a cause without really knowing what they are supporting, or fully understand what the ultimate goal of the cause is. Useful idiots can be associated with any political group or any organization that is trying to make change. The real change that the group is trying to make may not be something that the useful idiot may want. The useful idiot is simply tricked or lulled into supporting the cause, not realizing the impact the change will have upon them. Through indoctrination, the useful idiot becomes convinced that what they are being told is the truth and that the change sought by the group is just and righteous on all
levels. The indoctrination is usually based on half truths and flat out lies. The lies based on half truths are the most powerful of all. In the last several years in the US, socialists (Marxists) have gotten intertwined in all levels of our society. They have basically taken over our public school system and Universities. As per the Communist Manifesto, indoctrination should begin as soon as children are able to leave their mothers. The indoctrination that began in Kindergarten spreads through society as the indoctrinated age. It becomes prevalent in most levels of society. Those that are spared the indoctrination, become critical thinkers and avoid the useful idiot trap. As the indoctrinated become more in number, they began to gain power. They force silence on those that do not agree with them, ultimately killing them when they have complete control. To gain control, they have to cause strife in society, drive divisions between people. Pit race against race. The end game is to cause the collapse of the government. Once the government collapses, they step in and form a new government with total control of everything. Now, the people the useful idiots supported take over. How in the heck does this relate to the conversation about Custer’s last stand anniversary??? It relates because some of the comments were typical of the indoctrinated. Blame America first, blame the white man for everything wrong with this country, spout that racism is going strong in America, do whatever you can think of to dishonor and discredit American ideals and institutions. It’s just part of the big picture to destroy our country and I’m sick of it. I never thought I would see it on a hunting site. It just shows how far the tentacles have spread. Not a single person mentioned that Custer was just a soldier. He followed lawful orders that were given to him by his chain of command. If a modern day history revisionist wants to blame someone, blame the president at the time and his administration. Yes, America has some problems, what place doesn’t? It is still the best place for a person of color to live on the entire planet. I have been to 13 foreign countries, including Russia. I have also been to 47 of our states. I was lucky enough to have gone to a University that prided itself on presenting the facts to its students and let them make up their own minds. If you can’t get the whiff of Marxism in some of the comments made, pick up a copy of the Manifesto.

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