What do You Think About This Sheep Grazing Buyout?

[schelmster]

This can only be looked at as a good thing, any time that there is conflict between wildlife and domesticated herd animals it's the wildlife that is hurt, ie: shot at, run off or shot outright. Also seem's to be a few people that need to go to a massage parlor and let some steam off. Just my opionion.

 

[BigHornRam]

Asswipe,

Get a topo map of this area and give it a look. It's the largest continous block of + 10,000 foot land in the lower 48. This was a summer only grazing allotment and they went where the grass grows....up high.

BTW I forgot to thank Craig for this. Remember the gay art work you bought in Great Falls? Well a little bit of that money went towards this. Thanks Craig.

 

[Cathunt MT]

I think it is good for the sheep (bighorn) but I think it is a win for the people that do not want to manage the Griz. and wolves with hunting. Just pay people to move there livestock. one other thing is this move going to create a fire hazard with out having something graze on it???? Wolves and Griz go to where the food is not hard to get what do you think would be harder to hunt wild animals or livestock???? that is what I am talking about when I say they will just go to the next ranch whether it be public or privet.

 

[mtmiller]

one other thing is this move going to create a fire hazard with out having something graze on it????

Man you lost me dude. Is fire a bad thing? Is see this as more forage for wildlife and not domestic livestock that may pass diseases that can kill every sheep on the mountain.

Wolves and Griz go to where the food is not hard to get what do you think would be harder to hunt wild animals or livestock????

So you are saying we should keep the domestic sheep there, so wolves eat them and not big game critters?

 

[BigHornRam]

Cathunt,

This allotment is in the Beartooth Absaroka Wilderness....at the head of the Boulder river....between Big Timber and YNP......a long way from ANY ranches. Look on a map. If there is one place Grizzlies and Wolves should live, this is it. After reading some of your responses, I think you just earned the title of the 4th Fool.

 

[Cathunt MT]

If there is a fire in that are what do you think it would do for the animals that are there? I think we should Haze the domestic sheep from the wild one
Thats how it works with the buffalo right??? But thats a whole nother topic

 

[Washington Hunter]

Fire is beneficial for wildlife, always has been, and always will be. It's only detrimental to people. That's one of the biggest things we've done to screw up wildlife habitat...putting out fires. And now that we started, we can't stop. If man would have never messed with nature in the first place, fires wouldn't be the problem they are today, and we could just let them burn without a worrry.

 

[Cathunt MT]

That is a good point

 

[Muledeer4me]

MarvB,I think you hit the nail on the head with that statement.

"financially would have been seemingly cheaper to keep the allotment as is so I doubt that it was as much a $$ consideration as it was they just wanted the sheep folks outta there. "

When or IF you start looking into whats already in the works it seems pretty clear as to why and who wants all these buy outs.
What bothers me is how do we do whats good for wildlife without giving in to the Wildlands project and everything that goes with it?



Map from www.wildlandsproject.org

"The Wildlands Project’s work to reconnect the continent begins with "MegaLinkages"—vast pathways that tie natural places together. Each MegaLinkage is made up of regional "Wildlands Networks." Within the Spine of the Continent MegaLinkage, six Wildlands Networks have been proposed, and within these networks, the Wildlands Project has launched a campaign to protect "Endangered Linkages"—the critical connection within each network that is most threatened."

http://citizenreviewonline.org/special_issues/wildlands_project_step_by_step.htm



http://www.twp.org/cms/index.cfm?group_id=1000

Check out these links and then let Ithaca,Buzz and Jose tell us how wonderfull it will be.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Marv, "Ithaca- isn't the whole premise behind having someone on your, self-proclaimed, idiot list not having to view/respond to them in the first place??? I think this is kind of like driving by a wreck for you...don't wanna look, but just have to peek anyway!"

Sorry, Marv. I can't see BHR's post unless I temporarily take him off the idiot list, and he's not worth the time it takes to do that. I know how he thinks, though, and that's enough to respond. Maybe you don't know how the "Ignore" option works. Try it and you'll see that I can tell BHR made a post, I just can't see what he wrote. Thankfully.

 

[BigHornRam]

There has been a recent fire in this area that has opened up more country to elk, deer, and sheep forage. Also alot of this country burned in 88 during the Yellowstone fires. But most of the sheep grazing areas, both domestic and wild are above timberline. The allotments are named Ash Mountain and Iron Mountain after prominant peaks in the grazing areas. There are a lot of high flat plateau areas that allow for domestic sheep grazing in the summer months. Much of it has snow cover into July.

For those of you that want a wolf and grizzly hunting season, they need habitat too, or there will be no season. If you are ever lucky enough to draw a MT Griz tag in the future, odds are this area is where you will be hunting. Bears and wolves greatest threat is close interaction with man. Doesn't it make sense to leave the remote wilderness areas to them (as well as deer, elk, sheep, goats, ect.) and use the lower more populated areas for livestock production? A lot of wildlife groups thought so and put their money (NOT TAX PAYER MONEY) where there mouth is.

 

[BigHornRam]

No action on this thread in several days from Jose. He must have sobered up and found out he was talking out of his ass AGAIN! Poor Jose, "fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life".

This buyout is a perfect example of why WYOMING'S wolf management plan makes the most sense of all 3. Even the wolf huggers understand where the best wolf and grizzly habitat is, and was willing to pony up cash to a known pro-hunting, pro-delisting organization to make this happen. That is a big step in the right direction.

Wyoming's plan was the only plan that identified where good wolf habitat is, and where unsuitable wolf habitat is, and planned to manage it that way. Even with wolves managed as a varmint in cattle country, they still guarenteed a 15 pack minimum, just like Idaho and Montana did. If and when there ever is a wolf hunting season, Wyoming will be the first to implement one. Bank on it.

 

[BuzzH]

Cattle country?

There isnt a square foot of Wyoming that ISNT cattle country...

Thats why Wyomings plan is a joke.

 

[jmcd]

Buzz,
How much of Yellowstone is cattle country????

 

[BuzzH]

What percentage of Wyomings land mass if off limits to livestock grazing?

For the record, horses graze in Yellowstone NP.

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

Did you read the original article? It's states that over 300,000 acres in the GYE have been closed out to grazing through similar buyouts. Most of that acreage would be in Wyoming. I know the Wyoming FNAWS guy's have bought out a number of sheep grazing allotments in the Wind River's. Do you ever get involved, or do you just sit around and whine all the time?

BTW Wolf habitat in Wyoming = Yellowstone Park and adjacent wilderness areas. Cattle Country = the Prairie Country (and wolves can still live there, they just need to behave). Montana has a large number of wolves killed every year by ranchers or gov. agents due to livestock conflicts. What's the difference between how Montana manages them and how Wyoming propose to manage them? I think it's your anti-rancher bias Buzz that causes you to bad mouth Wyoming's management plan.

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

When are you going to get the fact that I dont care what plan Wyoming comes up with.

What I dont like is that WY's plan is not acceptable to the ONE agency that matters...the USFWS.

Until the USFWS signs off on their plan...then delisting will never happen and I'll never get to buy a wolf tag.

Thats what I dont like about WY's plan, its failure to allow delisting to happen.

I think I've made that clear numerous times...yet you still dont get it???

Unbelieveable.

 

[BigHornRam]

Buzz,

I'm starting to see a little progress in your thinking. Does this mean that when Wyoming get's things "settled" with the feds you will be happy and supportive of their management plan?

 

[BuzzH]

BHR,

If their plan is acceptable to the feds and keeps wolf numbers high enough to stay off the list, fine with me.

 

[1_pointer]

I second Buzz's last post.

FWIW, sheep are grazing the Uinta Wilderness Area just south of the Wyoming border and much of that country is above 10K feet. Additionally, the USFS data show that the grazed areas are pretty much unchanged for the last 50 years. In many areas in No. UT, more sheep grazing could greatly help out the deer herds.