WARNING: Student Load Forgiveness is Very Unlikely to Pay for Your Next Elk Tag

[Addicting]

How do I feel? I feel everyone of those careers is a choice. I don't want to pay for any ones choices but my own. My Wife is a nurse BTW and she thinks that idea of a nurse loan being paid by someone else is stupid. She makes plenty enough to pay her own loan off no more or less than a car mechanic who has to buy 50K in tools and is in hock to the Snap on tool man.

Couldn’t agree more, I didn’t force anyone to go to college. I didn’t force them to take out a loan. I was defending their freedom to do so if they choose to. Yet somehow I get to pay again and they get to feel entitled to whine about it.

 

[VikingsGuy]

How do you feel about student loan forgiveness for teachers? nurses? or those that enter the military after college? Or those that get law degrees and become public defenders? I'm not sure where to draw the line personally.

I don’t really like tying govt support to career choices made when 18, but there are worse programs.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I think it is so sad that no one use the three years at 0% interest rate to keep paying to get ahead. Even if it was a little, if they thought some would be paid off you would have been way better off.

Or even just saving those payments so you wouldn’t have to worry for a few years after restart.

 

[VikingsGuy]

The cost is unsustainable.

The premise was that if people went to college, that guaranteed a higher income and comfort in life.

That was the premise the generation after WWII enjoyed. Costs of education was low compared to return on investment. The cost of a years tuition could be paid by summer employment.

Higher education recognized the cultural swing towards education. And it was a swing, look at the % of population that went through education pre 1900 or pre 1920 versus the % in 1960 and 1980.

The culture shift encouraged/pressured every student to consider college or be shamed as a failure. Loan costs skyrocketed.
The trades struggled to find willing students.

We should be coming to terms regarding the ponzie scheme of higher education but instead the focus is a targeted political kickback not just to the student demographic but also the liberal professor and higher education demographic.

This bail out is for higher education as well as students.

The fervor regarding college costs and questioning of higher education was hurting college enrollment.
Now what is the discussion, all about debt forgiveness.

Can the brother get an Amen?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Is it really though? My and I think @VikingsGuy’s alma mater’s current tuition is $10k a year. It’s not a community college.. so the 4 year degree costs about as much as a basic 2 YO pickup truck.

I think the problem is this is unique, cheap schools, and what happens when people decide that these schools are the best option? Do schools in the Dakotas start having 1% acceptance rates?

Affordability is an outlier.

Compare your Alma Mater with CU. CU has a 2+B endowment, the Colorado State Land Board doesn’t allow public access to state lands ostensibly lease those lands to fund education, yet CU is incredibly expense in-state. It’s so expensive that we moved to Montana because out-of-state MSU tuition was 1/2 of in-state CU.

CU is more representative of where public universities are as a whole.

I find it extremely f-d that schools aren’t using their endowments to subsidize tuition and instead are investing millions in high risk PE Oil and Gas companies amongst other things.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I think it is so sad that no one use the three years at 0% interest rate to keep paying to get ahead. Even if it was a little, if they thought some would be paid off you would have been way better off.

(1) who says they haven’t?

(2) what about folks that were in default before the pause?

Personally I don’t think we should penalize and demean folks for being poor… or I mean hell with inflation what it is being middle class.

 

[rjthehunter]

As someone who could benefit about $10k if the whole plan was approved, I still don't like the idea. I went to college for a career that was going to pay well.

College is being sold to many as an "Experience" when it should be viewed as an Investment.

I went to school and got a degree in Construction Management. I learned what the pay would be, decided it was a good choice. Went to school, got it done in 4 years and could've paid my loans off 5x by now.

I've chosen not to because
1. 0% interest on a loan is free money.
2. IF by some miracle this thing passes, I'm not going to miss out on the opportunity to profit $10k. I'm going to be paying for the forgiveness for the rest of my life if it passes whether I accept the $10k or not. I may as well accept it.
3. I have money put aside to pay my loans off if they ever start accruing interest again.



The college I went to, like many was extremely liberal. There were tons of kids going for liberal arts degrees and teaching degrees. They're the same people that want everyone to pay for their degrees. I'd say high schools need to do a better job teaching finances because clearly a lot of people don't understand that spending $60k on an education that lands you in a career that pays $30k a year won't cut it.

 

[rjthehunter]

(1) who says they haven’t?

(2) what about folks that were in default before the pause?

Personally I don’t think we should penalize and demean folks for being poor… or I mean hell with inflation what it is being middle class.

1. The smart ones have kept the money in a bank account instead of paying it off. In the off chance this thing passes.

 

[VikingsGuy]

1. The smart ones have kept the money in a bank account instead of paying it off. In the off chance this thing passes.

Or kept making payments that now went 100% to pay down the principal.

 

[jakenbake]

If she is #1 in a top school, tell her to go to the biggest high paying firm she can for 5 years. Live frugally with roommates. Do a lot of pro bono to help folks like those kids. Pay off student loans and set up a savings account. Then leave the firm and do whatever type of law she wants from there. Those big firms will give her top notch training and great political connections she can use for the kids for decades to come. Most entry-level pro-bono type jobs don’t do a great job of training and the kids/clients don’t always get the best lawyering. Think of it as a residency or post-doc. No need to be poverty lawyer day one.

As a lawyer that graduated with honors from my state university then went straight to working for a state agency I wholly endorse this idea. I mostly enjoy my work, but I pretty much chose a lower standard of living for myself and my family going this way. Had I gone the firm route for 3-5 years, my loans would have been gone years ago and I would honestly very likely be a more competent professional. Of course the downside is the golden handcuffs - once you start making that type of money it's really hard to choose to make 1/3 - 1/2 of that amount. Good luck to the young lady though, sounds like she's got a bright future ahead no matter which direction she takes.

 

[VikingsGuy]

As a lawyer that graduated with honors from my state university then went straight to working for a state agency I wholly endorse this idea. I mostly enjoy my work, but I pretty much chose a lower standard of living for myself and my family going this way. Had I gone the firm route for 3-5 years, my loans would have been gone years ago and I would honestly very likely be a more competent professional. Of course the downside is the golden handcuffs - once you start making that type of money it's really hard to choose to make 1/3 - 1/2 of that amount. Good luck to the young lady though, sounds like she's got a bright future ahead no matter which direction she takes.

Having been in a role hiring young lawyers for a lot of years, this is a common source of regret. A new law grad has 40 yrs of practice in their future. If you are able why not take that last step in your training to fill out your resume by going to the best firm you can? In 3-5 yrs you then have every option available to you and a resume that will continue to give you options. Once a young lawyer goes non-profit/gov right out of school they for the most part (there are always exceptions) have locked in the next 40 yrs with far fewer options. Big firms suck, but 3-5 years of "finishing school with big salaries" is a long-term no-brainer and in no way requires one to sell their souls for the whole 40 yrs.

 

[Islander]

Let's call "forgiveness" by its real name; DEFAULT.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Let's call "forgiveness" by its real name; DEFAULT.

Nope. That's like saying cashing the Trump check in its real name is "GRAFT". Taking what your gov is giving to everyone else is not a failing on the individual's part. The problem is that at best forgiveness it is unplanned/unmanaged bankruptcy and at worst blatant vote buying. But, default, not so much.

 

[rjthehunter]

Or kept making payments that now went 100% to pay down the principal.

Yes. I paid all my interest off right away after college to get a nice tax benefit. Then we went into this forbearance shortly afterwards.

 

[DouglasR]

Well, if the government’s telling you you don’t have to pay because the worlds coming to an end and you might not have any work anyway

And then they wave a major wand and you don’t have to pay for 3 years and then the coups over and they wave it again and now you have to start paying

If it was 3 months that would be one thing, but 3 years

Talk about f***ing with peoples lives

 

[buckbull]

The guaranteed student loan program was intended to help kids from lower income families the ability to go to college. All well and good but the Universities got greedy knowing they have a guaranteed source of income. States have used this to lower their payments to state run universities. Kids are left holding the bag.

If the United States is going to continue to lead the free world we need doctors. We need engineers. We need lawyers. We need teachers. It is in all of our best interest to find ways to educate our smartest children.

I agree this student loan forgiveness is not the best way to handle the current situation. We need real solutions.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Well, if the government’s telling you you don’t have to pay because the worlds coming to an end and you might not have any work anyway

And then they wave a major wand and you don’t have to pay for 3 years and then the coups over and they wave it again and now you have to start paying

If it was 3 months that would be one thing, but 3 years

Talk about f***ing with peoples lives

Minor compared to the on-again-off-again permitting drama in the MN Iron Range. Just make a damn decision and let people move on with their lives. Can they plan on long-term living wage union jobs or are they stuck with minimum wage seasonal hospitality work and should take their families and leave. In the end, our govt just has too much power over too much of our lives to expect it not to be the biggest variable in our success and happiness -- it is sad indeed, but no sense pretending any different for most folks.

 

[VikingsGuy]

If the United States is going to continue to lead the free world we need doctors. We need engineers. We need lawyers. We need teachers. It is in all of our best interest to find ways to educate our smartest children.

and art history majors?

 

[338win]

I think the problem is this is unique, cheap schools, and what happens when people decide that these schools are the best option? Do schools in the Dakotas start having 1% acceptance rates?

Affordability is an outlier.

Compare your Alma Mater with CU. CU has a 2+B endowment, the Colorado State Land Board doesn’t allow public access to state lands ostensibly lease those lands to fund education, yet CU is incredibly expense in-state. It’s so expensive that we moved to Montana because out-of-state MSU tuition was 1/2 of in-state CU.

CU is more representative of where public universities are as a whole.

I find it extremely f-d that schools aren’t using their endowments to subsidize tuition and instead are investing millions in high risk PE Oil and Gas companies amongst other things.

I thought about making this point earlier. Where I graduated from is making about 500 mil a year return. They could cover about 1/4 of the in state tuition with 3% of their average returns. I could probably cut another 1/4 out of the tuition costs by eliminating the non essential courses. I think purdue recently streamlined their 4 year degree program and has had a tuition freeze for years.

 

[TheTone]

Or kept making payments that now went 100% to pay down the principal.

That’s what my wife did. Basically all but paid hers off and then currently has the money sitting in an account untouched to see what happens. If it goes through she’ll have a decent amount of money in an account that will truly help us; if not she’ll pay off her little bit of remaining balance