Unofficial WY app numbers

[BuzzH]

Had a zoom meeting earlier this week with the Game and Fish for the conservation roundtable and a couple things some may find interesting:

Unofficially, total hunting applications were up 18,000 over last year.

The only place NR applications declined some was elk, primarily cow/calf applications.

NR pronghorn applicants were up 8900, Resident applicants up 5600.

Resident fishing license sales were up 12,000 total which results in a $200,000 bump in fishing license sales.

On the GF revenue side, because Wyoming GF is only funded via license fees, PR/DJ, etc. there will be no loss of revenue or cuts to the GF budget. The GF is voluntarily choosing to make some cuts in a few places, seasonal/contract workers, equipment purchases, and grizzly bear management...all around 5-10% reductions.

Overall pretty good news from the Department considering the circumstances and what's going on.

 

[riley]

Interesting .... here in Illinois anything outdoor related has seen a spike in popularity due to everything else in the state being shut down.
I havnt looked yet to see if that’s also the case in fishing/hunting sales yet.

Does Wyoming come up with any kind of reasoning for why things are up? Or is that just a dumb question with way to many variables to answer ?

 

[Big Fin]

Thanks for sharing that. Interesting to see that that total hunting apps are up 18K+ and R/NR antelope account for 15.5K of that.

I like to get the WY information about how many of those were point buyers. That is one of my biggest components in trying to predict point creep in any coming year. I completely missed that prediction for antelope in 2020 and those numbers above are a good explanation of why.

 

[Oak]

I like to get the WY information about how many of those were point buyers. That is one of my biggest components in trying to predict point creep in any coming year. I completely missed that prediction for antelope in 2020 and those numbers above are a good explanation of why.

I assume by point buyers you mean people who just applied for nearly impossible tags? I didn't think there was any way to just purchase a point before July 1.

I'm actually most surprised by the resident fishing license increase. I wonder if it's just people who normally purchase later in the summer?

 

[VikingsGuy]

Thanks for sharing that. Interesting to see that that total hunting apps are up 18K+ and R/NR antelope account for 15.5K of that.

I like to get the WY information about how many of those were point buyers. That is one of my biggest components in trying to predict point creep in any coming year. I completely missed that prediction for antelope in 2020 and those numbers above are a good explanation of why.

Cause for more Proghorn content on HT?

 

[midwesthunter]

I would bet its do to not being able to travel earlier in the year.

 

[madtom]

I assume by point buyers you mean people who just applied for nearly impossible tags? I didn't think there was any way to just purchase a point before July 1.

I'm actually most surprised by the resident fishing license increase. I wonder if it's just people who normally purchase later in the summer?

I thought maybe he meant a large number of the extra apps this year might be people who were only buying points (not applying for tags) for years and decided to try and burn them this year. In doing so, they caused more extreme point creep in one year that any of us expected.

 

[Bigjay73]

I assume by point buyers you mean people who just applied for nearly impossible tags? I didn't think there was any way to just purchase a point before July 1.

I'm actually most surprised by the resident fishing license increase. I wonder if it's just people who normally purchase later in the summer?

Colorado had a huge resident fishing license increase. 208,000 people bought licenses, 70,000 more than in 2019. I think people are looking for new things to do.

 

[come2elmo]

Thanks for sharing that. Interesting to see that that total hunting apps are up 18K+ and R/NR antelope account for 15.5K of that.

I like to get the WY information about how many of those were point buyers. That is one of my biggest components in trying to predict point creep in any coming year. I completely missed that prediction for antelope in 2020 and those numbers above are a good explanation of why.

Didnt wyo points just open a couple of days ago or is that on certain ones?

 

[Big Fin]

I assume by point buyers you mean people who just applied for nearly impossible tags? I didn't think there was any way to just purchase a point before July 1.

I mean people who are just buying points. They don't show up in the app numbers. They show up in the reports of how many people go into each year's draw at each point level.

Example - I take last year's max point total. I go to the reports and see how many at max points were drawn/applied in the 75% PP draw. I multiply the successful by 1.33, extrapolating to add in how many drew in the 25% random draw. That gives me the number of folks who actually applied/drew at the max point level. It is always way off, and that is due to attrition. From that, I can isolate how many people are just "point buyers" who will jump in someday in the future. I do that for every point layer.

It is not perfection, as you never know how many actually drew in the 25% draw and you can't get that from the random reports. I also don't know how many forgot to buy a point, how many quit, or how many died. I just lump the total attrition for whatever reason, into one category.

In Wyoming, for elk, we have more non-resident "point buyers" in the top four point layers than we have actual applicants from those point layers. If folks actually looked at that, it would give them some idea of how bad point creep is going to be for the foreseeable future when it comes to top-tier units. Most people are applying for those top units are realistically relegated to the random pool and will be relegated to the random pool for 10-20 more years.

It is easier to look at last year's results, so I suspect that is what most people do. "Point Piles" are a disease of our own creation.

 

[Oak]

I mean people who are just buying points. They don't show up in the app numbers.

Yep, I completely misread your post I quoted.

 

[BuzzH]

I think there is a "double-whammy" that is hitting/driving NR pronghorn point creep.

1. Just more NR's applying
2. More residents applying and drawing tags means fewer leftover Resident tags dropping to the NR draw. Residents are taking a bigger bite of their 80% allocation, about time.

 

[R.K.]

Sounds like I'll never make it to max point level for elk in Wyoming. Which is fine, because I was planning to burn them in a couple years for a mid-tier unit, after learning the ropes in Montana.

 

[406LIFE]

I fear my days of paying for the regular are over. It burns me that it's just a money thing and it keeps people out, but that's the current system so I'll use it. $600 for an antelope every year is pricey; hope the doe tags don't go up.

 

[QuazyQuinton]

In Wyoming, for elk, we have more non-resident "point buyers" in the top four point layers than we have actual applicants from those point layers.

I agree with your general premise in this post. I'm a mid-level point holder for elk in Wyoming, so I will feel the point creep as much as anyone.

The one thing you don't acknowledge is that there is some portion of those high point holders who are just buying points for the sake of buying points. Whether it's guys who don't know what else to do with their money, or guys buying points for their non-hunting wives, or guys who are thinking, "Maybe someday...," some of those people are buying points with no real plan of ever applying. So while they all represent potential point creep, some portion of them will never actually affect it. Many of them will undoubtedly die with trophy levels of preference points. Of course, the separation of the two is not really a measurable phenomenon, so it's hard to say exactly what the effect will be, but until those people apply, they're only making donations.

And point creep will still go on.

QQ

 

[Shangobango]

I fear my days of paying for the regular are over. It burns me that it's just a money thing and it keeps people out, but that's the current system so I'll use it. $600 for an antelope every year is pricey; hope the doe tags don't go up.

I spent a bit of time looking at the 2020 drawing odds & reports today after I bought our points. I am thinking it is going to be the special for us as well even with the general elk and regional deer tags. May not have to go with the special if I settle on Wyoming deer next year as we will have 4 points which should be enough to draw the regional tag I have been looking at. After that it will likely be the special if we want to hunt Wyoming ever couple of years or so.

 

[Rodzilla]

I am one of those non resi hunters just buying Elk points (at 12 this year); reason being is that I am a very novice Elk hunter. I am trying to learn the ropes in OTC elk hunts before putting in for an actual tag. So far have been unsuccessful, but with more confidence (and elk hunting experience) i'll likely jump in a few years.

 

[Trial153]

Does this mean that the economy didn't tank?.....

 

[come2elmo]

Does this mean that the economy didn't tank?.....

I think it means there are a whole lot of people who can’t go anywhere else they decided they might as well go hunting and fishing.

 

[Trial153]

I think it means there are a whole lot of people who can’t go anywhere else they decided they might as well go hunting and fishing.

Resident increases I can buy that. NR increases not so much. If I am concerned about my finances and livelihood I am not traveling across the county to kill a couple lopes. Now a sheep is another story .....