MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
Yup. they are still working out some details as I understand it, and we will replace Poland's MIGs.
Ukraine / Russia
- Thread starter Cheesehead
- Start date
what do you think are the odds that supplying something like fighter jets - which seems to be a massive step up from supplying stingers, javelins, ammo, and guns - could create a dangerous escalation?
when does putin call it an act of war? would he dare? i dunno. seems the US government doesn't think so, i trust that to some degree.
i still suspect (think? edit: hope... wish?) putin knows in his heart that declaring war on NATO would be his last and final declaration. but i know i'm no expert.
'Putin is angry': U.S. intel heads warn Russia could 'double down' in Ukraine
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/...-russia-could-double-down-in-ukraine-00015177
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/...-russia-could-double-down-in-ukraine-00015177
MinnesotaHunter
Well-known member
I feel like there is a good chance Putin is already a dead man walking, just not clear how it will play out...
I have to be careful how I answer this, but I really think Javelins and Stingers will continue to have a larger impact. There are factors on the ground that make it challenging for those jets to have as significant impact as you would think. Part of the reason the Ukraine has as many of their jets still available as they do, is that they haven't been flying them very much. Russian aircraft aren't the primary threat to UKR aircraft.
As for how Putin will try and spin it, tough to say, but I don't think it is a significant enough action to fundamentally change things.
I have to be careful how I answer this, but I really think Javelins and Stingers will continue to have a larger impact. There are factors on the ground that make it challenging for those jets to have as significant impact as you would think. Part of the reason the Ukraine has as many of their jets still available as they do, is that they haven't been flying them very much. Russian aircraft aren't the primary threat to UKR aircraft.
As for how Putin will try and spin it, tough to say, but I don't think it is a significant enough action to fundamentally change things.
Handlebar
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2014
- Messages
- 303
I remember reading "The Third World War" by Sir John Hackett. If I recall correctly NATO doctrine revolved around anti-tank teams. I also rremember the first time I shot a LAW, that was kinda fun.
Pretty interesting review of the arsenal supplied to Ukraine.
www.popularmechanics.com
Every Single Weapon Europe Is Sending to Ukraine (So Far)
Tanks and aircraft-killing weapons top the list.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Reminds me of the stories of wargame trials before the Battle of Midway - "bad rolls of the dice" were simply replaced to ensure victory - but I guess history never got the memo.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
History reminds us to avoid impoverished Austrian Lance Corporals; and now disillusioned non-descript Soviet KGB "cogs".
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
This would be good news if there was a foreseeable exit strategy for Putin, but at this point more likely just a lag while they bring in more firepower while continuing to pound civilians . . .
The pen (or cellphone) is mightier than the sword.
I predict the Putin regime takes the big L on this one, but not from Ukraine, NATO, or anyone else in the world. This is becoming more unpopular to the Russian people by that day, and he is losing the PR war right now with his own people.
If they go down by their own hand, this would be the best case scenario for the world as a whole.
I predict the Putin regime takes the big L on this one, but not from Ukraine, NATO, or anyone else in the world. This is becoming more unpopular to the Russian people by that day, and he is losing the PR war right now with his own people.
If they go down by their own hand, this would be the best case scenario for the world as a whole.
I'd be curious how much of that is the work of funding and operational support by the likes of CIA, MI5, etc.
I’ve been wondering the same thing, I suspect quite a bit of it is not purely organic.
I don’t know that there would ever be a way to truly know this, but I wonder what Putin’s popularity really was before this invasion began. This really seems like a desperate act to rally approval, a move we have certainly seen before. I’m not sure this is going the way he hoped it would in that regard.
I don’t know that there would ever be a way to truly know this, but I wonder what Putin’s popularity really was before this invasion began. This really seems like a desperate act to rally approval, a move we have certainly seen before. I’m not sure this is going the way he hoped it would in that regard.
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
I would guess we are pulling out all the stops to make sure the line of communication from the west to the people of Russia remain open. Their action (or that of their oligarchs or military heads) are the only path to a good end to this story.
Or Putin dead. mtmuley
I would hope so, I believe I have heard that some apps have suspended service in Russia.
I want to say I heard Tik Tok was one of them (laugh if you want, but this is how a lot of people under the age of 25 are connected to the world as crazy as that sounds).
VikingsGuy
Well-known member
Dead or deposed is what I was referring to.
D
Deleted member 28227
Guest
Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s legitimately 60-80%. Remember Stalin is still popular in Russia.
The article @Ben Lamb posted is worth a read.
I like dead. mtmuley
Pucky Freak
Well-known member
I have this sense of dread that Putin is just slow-walking the invasion for the moment, and any day now will shower Ukrainian civilians in a massive rain of explosives. Maybe he sees how poorly things are going on so many fronts, and will take a quick, violent out to try and break the back of the Ukrainian resistance. Of course that’s what the ground invasion was supposed to be…
As stated above, no way to accurately guess what’s going through his head, though.
I can’t imagine a scenario where he backs out with his tail between his legs. It seems the last thing he wants to be viewed as is a failure or weak. The Russian citizenry seem to like a strong, confident, gutsy leader. After an initial popularity bump 2 weeks ago, “Putin Stock” has to be falling like a rock… How could he remain popular with the ruble losing half its value? Seems like the hourglass is running, and unless he wraps up this nightmare before too long the levers of power within Russia will force him out. I’m assuming everyone in Russia knows he’s a one man show, and the war stops when he’s gone?
I read an article recently that discussed freezing the entire set of .ru internet domains. Drawback is it’s completely unprecedented and illegal. I wouldn’t mind if Western powers did it anyways as a last resort if/when Putin dramatically ramped up his slaughter of civilians.
As stated above, no way to accurately guess what’s going through his head, though.
I can’t imagine a scenario where he backs out with his tail between his legs. It seems the last thing he wants to be viewed as is a failure or weak. The Russian citizenry seem to like a strong, confident, gutsy leader. After an initial popularity bump 2 weeks ago, “Putin Stock” has to be falling like a rock… How could he remain popular with the ruble losing half its value? Seems like the hourglass is running, and unless he wraps up this nightmare before too long the levers of power within Russia will force him out. I’m assuming everyone in Russia knows he’s a one man show, and the war stops when he’s gone?
I read an article recently that discussed freezing the entire set of .ru internet domains. Drawback is it’s completely unprecedented and illegal. I wouldn’t mind if Western powers did it anyways as a last resort if/when Putin dramatically ramped up his slaughter of civilians.
Redmt
Well-known member
Putin needs to go away. The problem is that he's not a one man band. It's like whack-a-mole. Knock one in the head and another pops up. The entire structure of Russia needs to open their eyes. Life doesn't need to be difficult.
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