Ukraine / Russia

[Sytes]

Putin is a genius from former KGB to leader. Putin does not operate without his chess strategy extending beyond simple Biden (UN) sanctions... he's a crafty MF...

 

[JLS]

Putin is a genius from former KGB to leader. Putin does not operate without his chess strategy extending beyond simple Biden (UN) sanctions... he's a crafty MF...

Has good moobs too.

 

[SAJ-99]

The historical track record for sanctions is really weak, especially against oligarchs, especially with time to prepare and especially when a major economy - France, Russia, China - is wiling to ignore. The sanctions are mostly theater. To the extent they work - they work to harm the average citizen, not the entrenched officials.

Sanctions work, but not visually or quickly like a bomb exploding. They are intended to create economic instability which would lead to political instability. Most sanctions are a slap on the wrist. Occasionally they are serious. Iran is an example. This is essentially a declaration of economic war on Russia. I agree that Putin and the oligarchs won't feel the effects for a long time, but I think it eventually creates instability. Also agree that it won't change Putin's mind on Ukraine. I think he is backed into a corner now. No way out to "save face", which is why the sanctions took so long and were debated heavily.

On the bright side, apparently Putin did what no US president has every been able to do - Get Germany to meet its financial obligations to NATO. Kind of funny that he made NATO stronger when he thought it was at its weakest.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I don't think its a matter of willing. For you or I sure it is, some folks though it's a matter of simply can or cannot.

Totally, which is why I said price per barrel over price of gas. Either or both? @VikingsGuy and @SAJ-99 have posted about how increases directly effect GDP. So the increased costs are felt in all kinds of ways, to that end think about the costs felt by folks during WWII, beyond the cost of life.

My point is are we as a nation willing to accept ‘war’ consequences.

All that being said, it’s more a cost born by Europeans as the US can ramp up production. My company for example is issuing dividends instead of drilling more wells and increasing production currently, we absolutely have the ability to 1.5 or maybe 2x our production by the end of the year if called upon.

 

[Addicting]

seeing word of a large contingent of Russian forces moving on Kiev
Some sources say big % of forces are supply/fuel based
Some sources saying looks like prep for a siege style attack
I think Western media is being a bit too rosy with the Russia stumbles narrative and we might see things take an uglier turn over the next day or two

Shoulder fired missiles and drones make quick work of stationary targets. I just wish they had a squadron of A10s there. The Russian convoy was lined up so nice and neat in those photos. Great target opportunity.

 

[RobertD]

Shoulder fired missiles and drones make quick work of stationary targets.

Great point, was reading an article today on National Review about Russian conscripts lacking fire and move training to eliminate threats like shoulder fired missiles. Argument was that they don't know how to dismount vehicles and close to the enemy, makes their vehicles vulnerable. Thinking from Ukrainian perspective, few dead tanks could certainly help block off roads even if only temporarily

 

[Europe]

^^^ as radical as that statement may seem, this is a necessary eventual outcome. Along with the 100+ year of Russian history of destroying anything they view as even a slight obstacle to their desires. The type of behavior we see in Ukraine is part of the DNA of the Russian ruling class.

I posted this on my FB page in 2018 when so many Americans seemed to be fawning over Putin as some sort of tough guy hero. Part of that post was driven by my Finn heritage where any and all things Russian are taught to never be trusted and to be opposed.


*******************************************
How's your history?
Finland - 1918
Georgia - 1918
Poland - 1919
Turkey - 1919
Azerbaijan - 1920
Armenia - 1921
China - 1929
Poland - 1939
Finland - 1939
Latvia - 1940
Estonia - 1940
Lithuania - 1940
Hungary - 1956
Czechoslovakia - 1968
Georgia - 1991
Tajikistan - 1992
Chechnya - 1994
Ukraine - 2008
Crimea - 2014
United States - 2016
Grandma was right....... Älkää usko Venäjää!!!!
*******************************************

I now have to add Ukraine - 2022.

Even if Putin disappears, history shows us that Russia has an imperialists history that shows complete disregard for freedom, human life, and democracy. Until Russia is changed in a foundational way, starting with Putin and his cronies being replaced, we are kidding ourselves to think this history will change if Russia decides to host "peace talks" with Ukraine.

In my uninformed opinion, this is a time to damage Russia beyond what they ever expected when they rolled into Ukraine. Russians only respect power used without restraint and discretion. I would gladly pay more in taxes, higher gas prices, suffer a downturn in the stock market, if it meant the US and allies would bust Putin's chops in a way he has never seen or ever expected.

Some worry about Putin's threats on using nuclear weapons. I get that, but if we retreat on that threat, that only reinforces what he can get by operating this way. If we cower to that threat, what do we do when he ends up in Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, or wherever is his next target? Will we continue to walk back our promises of security every time he rattles his nuclear saber?

This is our time to make his life beyond miserable. Both internally and externally. Unlike many places where Russia pushes the boundaries of imperialism, Ukrainians have shown they're not going to run off and hide. They are going to stand and fight. If we bail on them, do we really think the next of Putin's victims will think it is worth standing to fight if the US and allies are going to leave them holding the bag? This is our chance. And China is watching to see what benefits come from challenging democracy and freedom with military power.

I just don't know if Americans are willing to pay the price that might be necessary to make a stand here. Whatever sacrifice is required here will pay huge dividends. This confrontation is an eventuality, either now, next year, or ten years from now. The US and allies could help in a much bigger way than the tepid response so far. Just a function of whether or not we are willing to make a small adjustment to our plush lives in order to do so.

Seeing this picture of teachers, mothers, and other determined Ukrainian women signing up to fight the Russians with nothing more than a shitty rifle and a handful of ammo, it makes me realize how strong the human spirit is once they have experienced liberty and freedom. The likelihood of Americans having to do this on our own soil is very slight, but images like this surely make me want to help these people in any and every way possible, now and in the future.

View attachment 213671

AND, I not only wish they had listened to your Grandmother but to Churchill and Patton in May, 1945. They knew then what needed to be done and were poised to accomplish it, but were told to stand down. One argument against Churchill and Pattons plan was that a lot of innocent lives would be lost. However after the pact was signed with Stalin ( yesterdays Putin ) he managed to kill 40 million Russians and Ukrainians --murder and starvation. As terrible as it is , I agree with Randy, removing Putin will not be enough, we, the rest of the world, must literally put them back into the stone age. IMHO

I would like to thank Randy for adding that picture to his post which I have had printed and sent to several young people in my family with the words, when you start feeling bad for yourself tonight for one reason or another, take another look at this picture. What are they doing tonight ? And tomorrow night ? and------?

He ( Putin )will not stop until someone stops him as he could care less what his citizens think of him

 

[VikingsGuy]

Sanctions work, but not visually or quickly . . .

Mullahs still rule Iran after 40 years of sanctions; communist Cuba still there after 60 years; Russian on and off for last twenty; Bolivarian govt in Venezuela over a decade and still there; North Korea multiple decades and still there. Where have they worked?

 

[VikingsGuy]

On the bright side, apparently Putin did what no US president has every been able to do - Get Germany to meet its financial obligations to NATO. Kind of funny that he made NATO stronger when he thought it was at its weakest.

True dat.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Putin is a genius from former KGB to leader. Putin does not operate without his chess strategy extending beyond simple Biden (UN) sanctions... he's a crafty MF...

He is a sociopath not a genius.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

He is a sociopath not a genius.

Chess game is a bit easier when empathy and the welfare of your common man isn’t a variable you have to consider.

 

[SAJ-99]

Mullahs still rule Iran after 40 years of sanctions; communist Cuba still there after 60 years; Russian on and off for last twenty; Bolivarian govt in Venezuela over a decade and still there; North Korea multiple decades and still there. Where have they worked?

I get your point, and agree with it mostly. I guess we have to agree on the definition of "worked". If the definition is regime change and installing democratic government, then no they don't work. But if you want to get people to the table, they help. The biggest issue is they take so long you can isolate cause and effect. When Biden announced the first round and said "let see how they work over the coming months", I thought : Putin figures Ukraine won't exist in a couple of months. That is the problem. But the alternative is military combat, and the West isn't willing to do that for Ukraine. Unfortunately, we push Putin further into a corner and the chance of a "mistake" with NATO forces increases by the day.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-145.pdf

 

[406dn]

Putin is a genius from former KGB to leader. Putin does not operate without his chess strategy extending beyond simple Biden (UN) sanctions... he's a crafty MF...

My brother I were talking about this mess over lunch today. Our take is that it is not unfolding how Putin thought or wanted. He has forever pushed Ukraine towards western Europe. They will never forget.

All of the other parts of the old Warsaw pact also see Putin and Russia as unjustified invaders. This will not make them more friendly towards Russia, for a good long time.

They have shown the world that their soldiers are not spirited warriors. The Ukrainians are giving them all they want and more. Even after they gain control, the continual guerrilla war will bog them down.

 

[BigHornRam]

True dat.

For now anyway.

 

[The Hedgehog]

It's hard to tell what news to believe with this, even when only looking at traditional dead center sources.

 

[PaulRevere]

Should I post Putin's titty pic again?

 

[Nick87]

It's hard to tell what news to believe with this, even when only looking at traditional dead center sources.

I'm really starting to feel that way about most any topic anymore. Pretty sad.

Edit- is there really any of those sources left?

 

[The Hedgehog]

I'm really starting to feel that way about most any topic anymore. Pretty sad.

Edit- is there really any of those sources left?

I’ve been following reuters

 

[VikingsGuy]

I’ve been following reuters

I have liked BBC so far.

 

[schmalts]

Putin is a genius from former KGB to leader. Putin does not operate without his chess strategy extending beyond simple Biden (UN) sanctions... he's a crafty MF...

Be careful there Sytes..... That sounded like praise according to some people. I guess some people never heard the term "keep your enemies close" Putin is no idiot. Treat the man with a respect that makes you keep a third eye on him at all times or he will stab you in the back. On another note, If the Ukrainians really put up a fight, I do not think Russia is as strong as people think. Hell they got an ass kicking in Afghanistan, but it will not be pretty in the end.