Trump to Order Review of National Monuments

[DRAFTSTUD]

mfb99, Where are you getting your figures on Wind and Solar vs Oil and Natural Gas? Why did you post a link of an article talking about the Birds when Wind Turbines are wiping out so many Birds. That is why Obama gave them the green light on Eagles. Thanks, John

 

[Sytes]

Man, with Facebook, in-person conversations and forums, copy/paste should be king!

This Act relates in the same fashion as the President's authority upon urgent necessity to commit military action without Congressional approval. Congress required for any declaration of war. This is the same though relates to imminent threat towards American historic or scientific protections that does not hold the time for Congressional review. OTHERWISE, we must adhere to our country's democratic due process! We, as Americans, regardless our political positions, are obligated to support our use of those whom we voted as our Congressional Representatives at all cost!

The Antiquities Act as designed is intended to focus on, "the limits of which in all cases shall be confined to the smallest area compatible with proper care and management of the objects to be protected."
Not 50 million acres as Carter sought
Not 1.7 million acres as the Bears Ear
etc, etc, etc.

Many of these did not find an imminent threat towards our lands. Many of these are Partisan bull chit politics to avoid our DEMOCRATIC DUE PROCESS. Stop pissing on TR's legacy and bring back the integrity used to create by both Congress and TR - our Antiquities Act.

My two coppers.

 

[mfb99]

Sounds like you don't like birds........

I don't recall that I listed any "figures" on Wind and Solar, but here are a couple for you:

Today, California energy is 26 percent renewable, by 2020 it will be 33 percent, by 2030 it will be 50 percent.

A simple Google search will answer your questions on Solar, Oil and particularly how fracked Natural Gas has killed coal.........I am an engineer not a professor so I am not the best to educate you.

The "bird thing" with Wind Turbines is pretty much a non issue. Some of the largest wind farms are in Golden Eagle and Condor areas, they have not dramatically affected the populations. Do some birds die, most likely, but not as many as would die if they were eating DDT or Lead or there habitat was stripped clean from a mining operation. There is always a compromise with any energy source.

I personally have hunted around wind farms and see Ravens and Hawks flying and fighting right next to a 300 foot turbine. There are not a bunch of bird bodies laying on the ground.....

In California, all energy projects go through a very rigorous environmental review. Have the Wind farms been stopped? No, in fact they are being build like gang busters.

Open you mind and ye shall be enlightened.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[IlliniFIre]

I was doing my usual periodic checking in of what my state and national representatives are up to and came across this. On May 2nd the Federal Lands Subcommittee is having an oversight hearing regarding "Executive Overreach of the Antiquities Act". Since my Congressman sits on this subcommittee, I was hoping to send something or call his office to hit him with. Unfortunately, I'm not much of a wordsmith when it comes to emails. Phone calls are even worse since when excited I have been known to use the f-bomb as a verb, noun, adjective, and adverb, all in one sentence. So do you folks have any assistance? Maybe go into the history of the recent designations since I seriously doubt my Congressman has any clue on it? I have doubts as to what good I'm doing by pestering him, but I also fear that since he is a rather junior member, he is just going with what Bishop et al are telling him. Also here's a link to the hearing notice.

http://naturalresources.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=401854

 

[elkduds]

Committee: Writing to remind you that the state of UT does not own any of the federal lands within it's boundaries, despite its fervent wish to do so. I own it, as does every American. When UT undermines BLM land management by failing to enforce federal rules it disagrees with, tolerating harassment of federal law enforcement staff, ignoring artifact theft from federal lands, endorsing illegal access to Recapture Canyon via ATVs, and pursuing legislation to steal these lands from us, the rightful owners; your committee must recognize and defend the interests of the citizens of this nation in protecting and preserving these lands. Federal lands in UT are @ risk, National Monument designation including all lands ordered by any President is a valid legal tool to address that risk. Any Chairman Bishop must recuse himself from all proceedings regarding review of Antiquities, as he has flagrant conflicts of interest.

In Nov. 2018, what is going around will be coming around.


Emailed to https://naturalresources.house.gov/contact/ today. House Committee on Natural Resources, Bishop/UT Chairman

 

[mfb99]

An interesting opinion piece in The Hill, saying that Trump will lose his bid to roll back any National Monuments.

Uses case law and interpretations of the Antiquities Act and the Constitution.

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/the-administration/331377-why-trump-will-lose-on-his-push-against-the-antiquities

Cheers,

Mark

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

Oh, I do my research.
http://www.renewables-info.com/ener...d_energy_vs_natural_gas_-_us_perspective.html
http://www.newsweek.com/whats-true-cost-wind-power-321480
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-many-birds-do-wind-turbines-really-kill-180948154/
http://www.audubon.org/news/will-wind-turbines-ever-be-safe-birds
John

 

[Nameless Range]

The executive order creating Montana's Sage Grouse Conservation Strategy basically prohibits wind energy development in Sage Grouse Core areas. I don't think it's controversial to say that wind energy can have a negative effect on birds.

https://sagegrouse.mt.gov/ProgramMap

 

[rogerthat]

Sounds like you don't like birds........

I don't recall that I listed any "figures" on Wind and Solar, but here are a couple for you:

Today, California energy is 26 percent renewable, by 2020 it will be 33 percent, by 2030 it will be 50 percent.

A simple Google search will answer your questions on Solar, Oil and particularly how fracked Natural Gas has killed coal.........I am an engineer not a professor so I am not the best to educate you.

The "bird thing" with Wind Turbines is pretty much a non issue. Some of the largest wind farms are in Golden Eagle and Condor areas, they have not dramatically affected the populations. Do some birds die, most likely, but not as many as would die if they were eating DDT or Lead or there habitat was stripped clean from a mining operation. There is always a compromise with any energy source.

I personally have hunted around wind farms and see Ravens and Hawks flying and fighting right next to a 300 foot turbine. There are not a bunch of bird bodies laying on the ground.....

In California, all energy projects go through a very rigorous environmental review. Have the Wind farms been stopped? No, in fact they are being build like gang busters.

Open you mind and ye shall be enlightened.

Cheers,

Mark

...yet whenever I see a wind farm I can't help but ask myself "is this one of those ideas in fifty years we will be asking ourselves, what the @&$? Were we thinking?" Open pit Coal mines are ugly but wind farms take ugly to a whole new level... that being said I get it... no pollutants...but still ugly

 

[Northwoods Labs]

I think this may have been posted on here a while back, but regardless I thought this was a great article by Hal Herring (who I view as probably the top conservation writer in the country) on National Monuments for Field and Stream: http://www.fieldandstream.com/sportsmans-view-national-monuments

 

[MTGomer]

...yet whenever I see a wind farm I can't help but ask myself "is this one of those ideas in fifty years we will be asking ourselves, what the @&$? Were we thinking?" Open pit Coal mines are ugly but wind farms take ugly to a whole new level... that being said I get it... no pollutants...but still ugly

There seems to be this far too long perpetuated misconception that solar or wind are 'green' and that they are a move away from open pit mining.

Both rely heavily on open pit mining for their raw materials. As solar and wind expand, mining will expand with it, specifically for rare earth metals. Many of these mines are in China.

Simply google 'Chinese Rare Earth Mineral Mine' and click on the 'images' tab.
Like Colstrip or Gillete, except without EPA oversight.

I'm not saying they don't have their place or anything like that, but they are not an end all to fossil fuel energy and do absolutely nothing to create an alternative to the millions of products build by petroleum

Fracking for natural gas is hands down, unarguably the greenest energy form we have readily available today. There is no close second whatsoever especially when abundance and affordability are considered.

 

[MTGomer]

This is the greenhouse that wind turbine seedlings are sprouted in.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Fracking for natural gas is hands down, unarguably the greenest energy form we have readily available today. There is no close second whatsoever especially when abundance and affordability are considered.

Yes this is much more preferable. Not to mention all the poisonous waste produced in the proccess.

 

[MTGomer]

Yes this is much more preferable. Not to mention all the poisonous waste produced in the proccess.

View attachment 70471

What does a 50 year old, non fracked, vertical crude producing field have to do with horizontal drilling and fracking for natural gas?

A more accurate representation of what I'm talking about, would be 6 or 8 wells on one, 1 acre pad, and the rest of that a wheat field or a forest.

 

[MTGomer]

Like this. (this one is probably primarily for oil with gas being a biproduct)
This is greener, more productive and less subsidized than a windmill on every ridge top.

That evil fracking, you can thank for reducing CO2 emissions as gas keeps taking market share from coal- and when combined with horizontal drilling technology, is the reason modern fields look like this, instead of that disgusting wasteland in Texas you posted.

I like whats posted below, which employs my fellow Americans at $100,000+/yr jobs. You prefer that open pit strip mine I posted above, which drains acid mine waste into neighborhoods where thousands of people in the third world are expected to live with it, so Americans can preach to the world how morally superior they are for moving to 'green'. I'm not against 'green' but lets just be honest with eachother about what it fully entails. Right now, it entails the Chinese paying people pennies to work hard labor with no safety or environmental standards, and rape and pillage the country side with strip mining practices that makes the Alberta tar sands look clean.

 

[MTGomer]

And to the topic at hand, I sure would like to see theDOI not look backwards, especially toward 20 year old monuments such as UMRB

 

[LuketheDog]

Yes this is much more preferable. Not to mention all the poisonous waste produced in the proccess.

View attachment 70471

This is not what fracking looks like, sheesh, get informed...smh

Edit: MTGomer already cleared it up.

 

[elkduds]

Fracking can and has contaminated drinking water, but who needs that, right? http://www.apmreports.org/story/2016/12/13/epa-fracking-contamination-drinking-water And there's that seismic hiccup in OK. True risks of fracking are unknown because the industry fights like hell to keep it from being studied. I wonder if that EPA report from 12/06 had anything to do w Trump gutting the agency? Nah, that would mean he is in the pocket of Big Oil/Gas. What are the odds?

 

[MTGomer]

Fracking can and has contaminated drinking water, but who needs that, right? http://www.apmreports.org/story/2016/12/13/epa-fracking-contamination-drinking-water And there's that seismic hiccup in OK. True risks of fracking are unknown because the industry fights like hell to keep it from being studied. I wonder if that EPA report from 12/06 had anything to do w Trump gutting the agency? Nah, that would mean he is in the pocket of Big Oil/Gas. What are the odds?

Yet every last citizen of the United States has access to clean, cheap drinking water if they want it. Everyone. Nobody says fracking isn't capable of contaminating something at some point. 7+ Billion people need goods and energy though. There's no way to supply it without there being an effect somewhere.
Like with most things, the goal should be the most amount of benefit for the most amount of people with the least amount of negative to the least amount of people.

Many Americans - like you and Bwana just have a NIMBY attitude.
There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people that live on less money per month, than you and I make in an hour, who will NEVER have a clean source of water for their family, due to acid mine waste from rare earth mineral mining, much of which is driven by the wind and solar industry. That is my only point in this. Something shitty is done halfway across the world, to non-white peasants that don't speak your language, whom you will never meet, never have to see the damage OUR lifestyle has made on their life. You and I as the end user of the product of their suffering don't have to think about it, look at it, and can remain willfully ignorant about it if we want.

I'd hate to see the Trump Administration go crazy on drilling all over public lands as much as the next guy. I think I just have a little more realistic grasp on what it takes to accommodate my privileged, first world American lifestyle of vacations, new shoes, clothes, air conditioning, heat, electricity, nice vehicles, clean water on demand, fresh food from all parts of the globe etc...

 

[teamhoyt]

You nailed it gomer!