Kenetrek Boots

Trail cams on public land: how is that ok?

That said, I am a little jaded about trail cameras because when it was debated in Arizona it was a bunch of obese, loudmouth, side-by-side road hunting boomers sitting in front of their AC calling people that get up at 2:30 in the morning, to put 6 or 7 miles on the boots to get back to the truck before 8 AM while the temperatures were only 106, lazy.
Those guys aren’t not getting deer because others are running trail cameras, they’re not getting deer because deer don’t like Polaris Rangers and bud light.
 
I strongly agree that trail cameras (both cell and non cell cameras) should be banned on public land. Personally, I don't enjoy running into trail cameras on public land and I suspect many other hunters and non-hunters feel the same.

On private land I don't really care as I think trail cameras can be used to better manage a property for wildlife and to guard against trespassers. However, hunters that make the argument that trail cameras are not a helpful hunting tool are either being disingenuous or using trail cameras poorly (i.e. constantly checking trail cameras and educating deer). At a minimum, trail cameras teach you lot about what deer (or other target species) are in the area, the time of year deer use an area, time of day they use an area, etc. You also learn what areas hold few deer and can thus more efficiently hunt your property by focusing on the better areas. So even if you don't kill a buck right in front of a trail camera they should still be providing you with useful info that combined with other hunting knowledge increases your chance of success.
 
I still fail to see how a camera that takes a picture of a very small area, that you have already physically scouted, or the camera wouldn't be there, is somehow less "fair chase" than sitting on a hill with a spotting scope seeing animals that are two or three miles away then plotting them on your electronic cell phone that is accessing information from billions of dollars worth of satellites, scanning the area 24-7. Especially if you found that hill in the first place, by studying high resolution photos taken from outer space and viewed on your electronic phone or computer. Then when you get to where the animal you spotted three miles away is, you use your electronic range finder to give you an exact distance, so that you know how to adjust your scope.

I don't use either method, so I guess that makes me better than all of you ;)
 
gouch said:
I still fail to see how a camera that takes a picture of a very small area, that you have already physically scouted, or the camera wouldn't be there, is somehow less "fair chase" than sitting on a hill with a spotting scope seeing animals that are two or three miles away then plotting them on your electronic cell phone that is accessing information from billions of dollars worth of satellites, scanning the area 24-7. Especially if you found that hill in the first place, by studying high resolution photos taken from outer space and viewed on your electronic phone or computer. Then when you get to where the animal you spotted three miles away is, you use your electronic range finder to give you an exact distance, so that you know how to adjust your scope.

I don't use either method, so I guess that makes me better than all of you ;)
Click to expand...
The situation I’m imagining is your a casual hunter looking for a whitetail doe on public you’ve never hunted in Illinois.
You’ve got 1 weekend to go it.
Get there Friday afternoon.
You put to cams on 2 different field edges and you sit the river bottom.
You see nothing, go check your cams and they’ve got deer on them.
Where do you sit the next morning or afternoon?
 
For what it's worth:

87-6-401. Unlawful use of equipment while hunting, MCA

leg.mt.gov leg.mt.gov

Montana Code Annotated 2021​

TITLE 87. FISH AND WILDLIFE​

CHAPTER 6. FISH AND WILDLIFE CRIMINAL PROVISIONS​

Part 4. Hunting Offenses​


(d) while hunting, use any electronic motion-tracking device or mechanism, as defined by commission rule, that is designed to track the motion of a game animal and relay information on the animal's movement to the hunter. A radio-tracking collar attached to a dog that is used by a hunter engaged in lawful hunting activities is not considered a motion-tracking device or mechanism for purposes of this subsection (1)(d).
 
gouch said:
I still fail to see how a camera that takes a picture of a very small area, that you have already physically scouted, or the camera wouldn't be there, is somehow less "fair chase" than sitting on a hill with a spotting scope seeing animals that are two or three miles away then plotting them on your electronic cell phone that is accessing information from billions of dollars worth of satellites, scanning the area 24-7. Especially if you found that hill in the first place, by studying high resolution photos taken from outer space and viewed on your electronic phone or computer. Then when you get to where the animal you spotted three miles away is, you use your electronic range finder to give you an exact distance, so that you know how to adjust your scope.

I don't use either method, so I guess that makes me better than all of you ;)
Click to expand...
I don't think it is any different in regards to fair chase other than you at least need to be physically present to glass. I'd even say that glassing from a good vantage point is a far more effective hunting technique than using a trail camera or two unless you have an extremely limited water or food source you can leave the cameras on. The trouble is that a lot of regions of the country are not that conducive to glassing, which is where trail cameras can be a very useful tool and you're probably handicapping yourself by not using them. Still, I'd prefer trail cameras not be allowed on public land mainly to not feel like you're under surveillance and to maintain as much hunting opportunity as possible into the future. Trail camera technology is only getting better and less expensive.

E-scouting with satellite imagery is also a huge advantage but I'm not sure there's a way to regulate that. It's pretty simple to regulate trail cameras. I would be in favor of things like magnification limits on scopes which could probably be implemented fairly easily.
 
DouglasR said:
So Friday night I was drinking some beers with my ex best friend and one of his new friends from his new wife who’s this relatively nice, but traditionally chubby, out of shape, has an apparent knee injury from high school football that keeps him from exercising whitetail hunter.
Definitely better and more dedicated to hunting than me.
Click to expand...

I feel like there is more than enough to unpack in just the first paragraph, forget the game cameras...
 
I am not a fan of cellular trail cams on public land. But hard to get into fair chase arguments with so many other technological advances out there impacting hunting. Banning heated box blinds on private land or electric heating socks, vests, etc. in the midwest would probably save more deer than banning cellular trail cams.

I think I said it on another recent thread, I would still put out some trail cams if it was illegal to hunt those areas where I put them. It's fun to get pics of critters way out in the woods. I have some new very remote spots I want to put out cameras next summer. Hopefully will check them in late Sept and then would leave them until the following summer. The deer and elk I get pics in some of these areas are more likely to die of old age than me killing them.
 
To each their own. I have a couple cell cams, a couple regular cams, and I really like the cell cams. I can see what's out there without having to go out and disturb a specific area to see. If I have a ton of bears on a certain camera and only a couple deer, I don't hunt there usually. I hunt areas where big bucks frequent, but it's just another tool.

No different than scouting on foot with binos or spotters. A trail camera covers VERY little area.
 
The real question should be, just how much technology are we willing to allow in bug game hunting. Singling out cell phone cameras seems a bit nitpicky at this point. Personally, I would be content with limiting the technology to the time of the long bow. That is how I do most of my hunting anyway. No farther back than that though because my shoulder doesn't allow me to throw anything with any force anymore. No atlatl, spear, rocks or sticks for me.

Didn't someone have a webcam and a rifle set up by a waterhole in Africa and for a price the rifle could be fired via the internet from anywhere in the world?
 
I can see one advantage that cell cams have over traditional which in my mind be semi unethical. If you're sitting in a spot your phone goes off its a notification an animal walked past your camera in a different location, you up and move to that location and get that animal. i would say someone sitting on a hillside with a swaro has a way better advantage than someone who set up a trail camera, trail cams show a tiny picture of the entire picture.
 
I have 5 or 6 cameras out on public land right now for whitetail. None of them are cell cameras. To this point it hasn't helped me kill one buck...ever, lol. Every good public land buck I have killed has been in an area where I don't have a camera, lol. It is fun to look at the pictures though.
 
DouglasR said:
So Friday night I was drinking some beers with my ex best friend and one of his new friends from his new wife who’s this relatively nice, but traditionally chubby, out of shape, has an apparent knee injury from high school football that keeps him from exercising whitetail hunter.
Definitely better and more dedicated to hunting than me.

Anyways, we start talking about hunting and he pulls out his phone
“Dude look at what woke me up last night”
He proceeds to show me pics of a toad slammer of a double drop tine public buck he’s been getting instant cellular photos of sent to his cellphone via cellular trail camera.

And it’s just like... wtf?
Like why can you just leave those out there.
How is that fair chase?
You can collect unlimited data without ever being afield.
And if I want to smoke a j and get an hj out there, I don’t want Dylan having instant photos of that without even being there.
Or me taking a dump.
If you see it live through a spotting scope that’s one thing.

But with 3 cellular cameras it’s like you’re doing all day sits in 3 different spots everyday.
How is that not cheating?

Just wondering if anyone else has similar or opposing viewpoints on the matter?
Click to expand...
first things first... your intro


Secondly, I agree that the cellular game cams go a bit too far. It's one thing to put a game cam up in a terrible to get to spot and then have to hike in there to find out that nothing but ugly deer are where you thought the elk were. and then retrieve your camera and hike it to another death hole. It's another to only have to hike in there once to retrieve the camera and the rest of the time have the pictures sent to you. That said, would also be completely fine if all states banned them on public land to begin with.
 
Food for thought. I have a job, wife and two kids. This spot is 6mi from the trailhead. I checked this camera and another in a different part of the zone a week after the picture was taken. Note the date.

Opening day. I have an inventory of bulls in this zone. They all left. Not one picture after opening day. I have two months of daily activity. Then “0”. I wonder if I had been walking in there the week or days before the season if anyone would have seen a bull? Maybe someone shot one because I wasn’t in there dicking with them?

Sidebar:

Shed hunting. How many bulls die because guys are stomping around hoping they dropped? Winter weakens, shed hunters, sorry, spring kills.

I can be in the mountains everyday if I want. Frankly, the way these animals get piss pounded all year, I’d rather not contribute to their stress.
 

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wllm said:
The amount of hunter trash on the east coast is wild, ~ 50 years of rusted tree stands chained up everywhere.

There’s one spot I hunt from time to time where I’ve started to drop pins for each stand, simply because it’s comical. I’m up to 25, of those I think ~3-4 are active/ safe to sit in.
Click to expand...
I used to call and pester people to come get their crap out of one spot I hunted in NY. There you’re legally supposed to attach a phone number to tree-stands and blinds.

Pretty sure one couple’s tree stand & ground blind combo is still rotting in the woods all these years later.
 
I do not understand the comparisons of trail cameras to other technology like telescopic sights and google maps. You can use those things and they don't affect my time in the woods. If I see a trail cam on every tree I walk past - that affects me and my time in the woods. If I see you in the woods glassing or staring at your cell phone, that's fine, I'll be glad to say hi and move on to another spot. If I see your trail cam on a tree, I have to wonder, Are you coming to check on it soon? Is this 'your spot'? Am I being recorded? I don't want to have those thoughts, I want to hunt.

We can discuss limitations and ethics of all different kinds of technology, it's not an all-or-none topic.
 
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