The perfect rifle

[Don Fischer]

I was just thinking. We get rifles and completely ho through them to make them as accurate as possible. We get a scope and lap the rings hoping for the best. We pick over bullet's and loads. And with all these thing so many of us do, we still have never seen a rifle that could shoot the perfect group. The one thing we don't seem to fuss over is the guy pulling the trigger! I shot a 100 yd group with my 25-06 years ago that measured .111". Smallest group I ever shot by a long way. Quit shooting the rifle right then, didn't figure I'd ever get that small a group again and it you ask, my 25-06 groups .111" at 100yds. Got the target to prove it!

 

[noharleyyet]

I was just thinking. We get rifles and completely ho through them to make them as accurate as possible. We get a scope and lap the rings hoping for the best. We pick over bullet's and loads. And with all these thing so many of us do, we still have never seen a rifle that could shoot the perfect group. The one thing we don't seem to fuss over is the guy pulling the trigger! I shot a 100 yd group with my 25-06 years ago that measured .111". Smallest group I ever shot by a long way. Quit shooting the rifle right then, didn't figure I'd ever get that small a group again and it you ask, my 25-06 groups .111" at 100yds. Got the target to prove it!

Trigger discipline caused those flyers.

 

[yakimanoob]

Heh, yeah.

Honest shooters understand that they're the primary variable when it comes to accuracy.

It's also fun to tinker with rifles, and that's OK. I wish more folks could admit to themselves that they're simply enjoying a hobby rather than actually doing much to change their probability of hitting the target, but it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with tinkering!

As a side note, I bet you'd get a good price for that hummer on gunbroker .

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I've had some rifles in the last handful of years that shot into a cone of about 2" and was unhappy with that. One of them was a custom that still got brought on a once in a lifetime sheep hunt and also shot a bull that year. I have largely assumed that modern rifles almost all shoot plenty accurate for a hunters needs. That was until i worked "public rifle sight in day" at the range i'm a member of. I was baffled by just how inaccurate some of these rifle setups are. I'm talkin 4 MOA groups and I assumed it was the shooter but some folks let me try to see if I could do better and they still shot terrible when I felt I was breaking the trigger well. Lots of variables including janky mounting systems, cheap scopes, unknown torque on action screws, etc but i was still surprised.

 

[88man]

Did you ever play golf??

 

[VikingsGuy]

I am no sniper - with any precise rifle I am the "rate-limiting step". The pursuit of precision (and the accurate vs precise thing gets my OCD going sometimes just like caliber vs cartridge does for some on this forum) is a process, not an outcome. No rifle or rifle/shooter combination will be perfectly precise. It is simply the reduction of known elements of imprecision step by step until you are satisfied the tool will do the job well enough, or that your contribution to imprecision is big enough to hide any other attempt at improvement of the tool.

That being said, there are many many "2MOA guns" that are really 1MOA guns held by 2MOA shooters and many many declared "sub 1MOA" guns that are actually 2MOA+ guns being used by shooters that have little to no understanding of statistics.

 

[TOGIE]

any rifle can be perfect if the shooter stops caring about how perfect it is.

 

[noharleyyet]

Practice, practice...knowing the platform will outperform a pulse elevated heavy breathing adrenaline charged operator is key...for me anyway. If it prints 2" it's not getting the chance for me to exacerbate it's capabilities.

 

[elkduds]

Coloring outside the lines here. To me a rifle's history is more attractive than its functioning, provided it is "hunting accurate," (insert personal parameters here).

Would you rather shoot this


or

 

[MTLabrador]

Coloring outside the lines here. To me a rifle's history is more attractive than its functioning, provided it is "hunting accurate," (insert personal parameters here).

Would you rather shoot this
View attachment 211890

or
View attachment 211892

Devil’s advocate, but is the history of an AR platform really any different than something like a 1903 Springfield? Both started as military rifles, people realized they were pretty great and they became popular for all kinds of other uses.

 

[Schaaf]

I don’t know if BreaksRunner has ever shot a group that wasn’t .000”

 

[Deleted member 16014]

I don’t know if BreaksRunner has ever shot a group that wasn’t .000”

He doesn't even shoot groups anymore. He thinks about load development and the groups automatically appear on the paper.

 

[nhenry]

He doesn't even shoot groups anymore. He thinks about load development and the groups automatically appear on the paper.

His groups are so small they're 2 calibers smaller than the projectile actually

 

[OntarioHunter]

Devil’s advocate, but is the history of an AR platform really any different than something like a 1903 Springfield? Both started as military rifles, people realized they were pretty great and they became popular for all kinds of other uses.

True. But most of those Springfields that went on to hunt rarely looked like military guns. They were modified to look like something used to kill animals. And truth be told, most of them became better killing machinery than they ever were in their military configuration. But what can you do with an AR? It is what it is and will be forever more: war machinery. Personally, I doubt I would have ever hunted with my Springfield if it looked like it was going to kill Germans. My dad was a WWII vet and I know he killed at least one "Jap" with an 03A3. He bought two of them surplus in 1962 and quickly changed them to hunting rifle configuration. I guess I know why. I'm not saying your comparing 03A3 to AR is entirely apples and oranges ... but not it's far from it.

 

[noharleyyet]

I don’t know if BreaksRunner has ever shot a group that wasn’t .000”

He once posted a pic of his reloading room...sick perfect

 

[MTLabrador]

But what can you do with an AR? It is what it is and will be forever more: war machinery.

The same things you can do with any other rifle chambered for like cartridges?

 

[nhenry]

But what can you do with an AR? It is what it is and will be forever more: war machinery.

Looks aren't everything...

Many people build rifles to look exactly like M40s (which is a weapon of war) and they use them for things other than killing humans. AR's are ugly, IMO, but they're good for a lot of stuff other than killing humans, just like the M40. The fact that they look like weapons of war, does not mean that you can't make them do something else very effectively.

 

[OntarioHunter]

The same things you can do with any other rifle chambered for like cartridges?

Nice job taking what I said out of context to make it say something else.

 

[MTLabrador]

Nice job taking what I said out of context to make it say something else.

How the hell is that direct quote taken out of context? You asked what you can do with an AR. An AR is nothing but a well designed, accurate, semi automatic rifle chambered in .223, .308, or several other cartridges and can be used to hunt anything that can be hunted with those cartridges.

 

[mtmuley]

He doesn't even shoot groups anymore. He thinks about load development and the groups automatically appear on the paper.

Miss his input round here. mtmuley