Lead Sled Issues
- Thread starter Cornbread
- Start date
Well, I finally got a tiny break in the heat and humidity and got out this morning to do a 2nd check on the rifles I'll be taking up to Montana in the Fall for elk and mule deer season. I think I settled in on the Browning BLR's in .300 win mag with Federal Premium 180gr Trophy Copper and a Leupold VX5 HD 3-15x42, a stainless BLR in 7mm Rem Mag with Federal Premium 160gr TSXs and a Zeiss Conquest4 4-16x44 (this will be my mule deer rifle), and a Browning BAR Mark3 with Federal Premium 200gr Terminal Ascents and another Leupold VX5 HD 3-15x42 All are shooting 1" or less groups. Boy, what a cluster fck of problems from mounting the scopes, using the lead sled to burn up ammo, then last week the indian must have had glaucomo cause there were a number of flyers. Two buddies that are experienced shooters think I was just over tired from the heat and humidity and throwing shots.Also, they thought that I was switching rifles too fast annd not rested in between enough and it was affecting my concentration. I also bring along a shotgun, probably a 20ga Browning auto for bird hunting.
I am quite pleased with the groups from these rifles considering that they're not bolt action rifles. I did have one flyer with the .338 BAR. Curious to here your opinions. These were all shot at 100 yards and the black bull is exactly 1". I hadn't been shooting much in the last 10 years and I had to find a new range to shoot at instead of the public range with all the yahoos with new 16" barrel AR's that shot my targets. I ran through about 700 rounds total, so I feel that it has helped my trigger control tremendously. That guy Ryan Kleckner had a great suggestion I saw about 3 years ago. He said "Call your shot". In other words, it forces you to concentrate on the target and keeps your focus there. I posted a thread about a year ago if anybody knew the accuracy of the new BLR's and BAR's. Well, this should be definite proof.
One more thing. I recently started buying Zeiss Conquest4 scopes. Ive been a Leupold lover for years. I'll tell ya what, When I was doing tall target tests with these new rifles, the Leupolds were the ones that didn't cut the mustard. The Zeiss's adjusted spot on to 5,10, and 15 MOA. The Leupolds at the 10 & 15, and sometimes the 5MOA were high by 1" 1.5", and 2"; in that order for 5,10,15MOA. Leupold said I need to work the turret 6-7 times all the way up & down and right and left to work in the grease. Hmmm, yet all the Zeiss's worked spot on. Somewhat disappointed in Leupold. These were new scopes that came from the factory. Fortunately, inm all my scopoes I have a christmas tree-type reticle. Impact29 in the Leupolds and the ZBi in the Zeiss. Leupold did give my a trick to use at lower powers with a 2nd focal plane scope. Maybe lots of you know it already, so sorry if I bore you. At the range, you can test what the impact of lower powers is in the reticle by just taking a tall target with 5,10, & 15 MOA on your target 100 yards away, and just reduce the power on the scope. So, for the V% 3-15 power, the reticle is good at the highest power. As an easy example, if you reduce the power to 7.5 (50% of the 15 power) then each of the marks in the reticle is roughly worth double, right, so if your holdover is 10MOA, you now hold on the 5MOA mark. At really lower powers you need to confirm visually in say at 3 power, your holdover in 20% of what it is at full power. FYI. I make up a table that I attach to the butt of my rifle with these various holdovers at 16 power, 12 power, 10 power, & 8 power out at various yardages out to 600 yards and every 50 yards. I also have a table for windage.
I am quite pleased with the groups from these rifles considering that they're not bolt action rifles. I did have one flyer with the .338 BAR. Curious to here your opinions. These were all shot at 100 yards and the black bull is exactly 1". I hadn't been shooting much in the last 10 years and I had to find a new range to shoot at instead of the public range with all the yahoos with new 16" barrel AR's that shot my targets. I ran through about 700 rounds total, so I feel that it has helped my trigger control tremendously. That guy Ryan Kleckner had a great suggestion I saw about 3 years ago. He said "Call your shot". In other words, it forces you to concentrate on the target and keeps your focus there. I posted a thread about a year ago if anybody knew the accuracy of the new BLR's and BAR's. Well, this should be definite proof.
One more thing. I recently started buying Zeiss Conquest4 scopes. Ive been a Leupold lover for years. I'll tell ya what, When I was doing tall target tests with these new rifles, the Leupolds were the ones that didn't cut the mustard. The Zeiss's adjusted spot on to 5,10, and 15 MOA. The Leupolds at the 10 & 15, and sometimes the 5MOA were high by 1" 1.5", and 2"; in that order for 5,10,15MOA. Leupold said I need to work the turret 6-7 times all the way up & down and right and left to work in the grease. Hmmm, yet all the Zeiss's worked spot on. Somewhat disappointed in Leupold. These were new scopes that came from the factory. Fortunately, inm all my scopoes I have a christmas tree-type reticle. Impact29 in the Leupolds and the ZBi in the Zeiss. Leupold did give my a trick to use at lower powers with a 2nd focal plane scope. Maybe lots of you know it already, so sorry if I bore you. At the range, you can test what the impact of lower powers is in the reticle by just taking a tall target with 5,10, & 15 MOA on your target 100 yards away, and just reduce the power on the scope. So, for the V% 3-15 power, the reticle is good at the highest power. As an easy example, if you reduce the power to 7.5 (50% of the 15 power) then each of the marks in the reticle is roughly worth double, right, so if your holdover is 10MOA, you now hold on the 5MOA mark. At really lower powers you need to confirm visually in say at 3 power, your holdover in 20% of what it is at full power. FYI. I make up a table that I attach to the butt of my rifle with these various holdovers at 16 power, 12 power, 10 power, & 8 power out at various yardages out to 600 yards and every 50 yards. I also have a table for windage.
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NECALI
Well-known member
Are the issues with a LS only when secured with sandbags or something? Wouldn’t it be fine to use without any of it secured down and just cradle the rifle in it loose?
RaiderRich
Well-known member
I own a lead sled, don't use it to shoot with but I do use it to install scopes and for gun cleaning and what not.
For range shooting like most, I use bags.
For range shooting like most, I use bags.
No. The rifle would be fairly loose and flop around. The DFT2, which I bought, actually has a barrel strap. The butt part needs a towel or whatever to hold the rifle steadier. The issue is that the sed affects the barrel harmonics by not letting the rifle move more freely.
Bingo. I'm now using it at the range to hold an extra rifle. Kind of a very expensive rifle "Vise"
2ski
Well-known member
That's a good idea. I have a sled as I was jonsing to shoot a new gun I had, but had my shoulder worked on by a chiro who suggested holding off until healed. I bought a sled, noticed bad groups on a rifle that had good groups and called my buddy, an avid shooter. So 4 years later I have this sled in my garage. But it would make a decent vise to use to clean guns.
Wind Gypsy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,052
No. Even the light ones, unweighted, dont allow the rifle to recoil normally. In addition, they don't actually help shoot better unless a guy has some physical condition or lacks basic shooting fundamentals.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Caldwell Stinger...somewhat baggish & shoulder recoil bearing
perma
Well-known member
Makes me wonder how many people are pissed off about their scope and blame the manufacturer, only to not know that the sled is the thing that’s ruining it.
Wind Gypsy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2017
- Messages
- 2,052
For dudes who insist on a sled or refuse to learn how to shoot with bags or bipod/front rest and a rear bag, I always point towards one of those as a better lead sled alternative.
Smallwood1972
New member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2022
- Messages
- 12
Lead sled will also crack wooden stocks.
Use with caution
Use with caution
It loosened the butt stock on my Browning BAR Safari in .338 win mag. Boy, was I lucky I didn't use the LS that much. Phew.
What Ive used for 20 years is somewhat similar. I ditched the kead sled and went back to my old timey process. Hadn't had any issues.
latest update: Since dumping the Lead Sled after it loosened the stock on my Browning BAR Safari in .338 Win Mag, I switched scopes on the gun. Turns out the scope was not the problem. That scope shot 3/4" groups on a different rifle. New scope and still weird huge groups. Like 5" groups. So, a friend who is very mechanical & I came to the conclusion that maybe the LS cracked something in the rifle. Ive got to take it to a very competent gunsmith to hone down the issue. This rifle was shooting 13/16" groups at one point. I'd be tickled happy with just a 1.25" group right now.
