Texas moves to a cubed loyalty point system

[Deleted member 28227]

I agree it’s a screwed up system....I just don’t see this as a fix.

Oh absolutely.

The fix would be to go straight lottery and end any point systems.

 

[kylemcintyre67]

Oh absolutely.

The fix would be to go straight lottery and end any point systems.

I would start participating here in Texas if that were the case.

 

[jabber]

The first fix they need to do is treat all the NRs like we get treated when applying outside the state. As it is right now Texas welcomes all NRs to apply with no more cost than a R and have the same chance at all the tags that the Rs have. No 6% or 10% set aside just for NRs, in theory they could draw 100%.

With that said, cubing of points is stupid. They slipped this in without a lot of notice. Hopefully there will be enough opposition that they will change it back.

 

[bts09]

There was NO notice of this. And I’m not even sure how to submit comments to stuff like this in a formal way.

 

[LopeHunter]

Oh absolutely.

The fix would be to go straight lottery and end any point systems.

A lot of people go to Vegas or Atlantic City or some Native American casino to gamble. What point system do they have to reward your multi-year losing streak so your odds to win are better than someone now headed to the casino for the first time? None. Yet, people go back year after year. You benefit was you had year after year to draw a tag or win at the craps table. Should be the same way in hunt draws. You put your money on the table and take your chances. Next year, everyone is even steven unless want to have a wait period if you won a big payout recently. Step right up, you look lucky sir, win a prize for the lovely lady, so easy a humanities major can win!

 

[noharleyyet]

The first fix they need to do is treat all the NRs like we get treated when applying outside the state. As it is right now Texas welcomes all NRs to apply with no more cost than a R and have the same chance at all the tags that the Rs have. No 6% or 10% set aside just for NRs, in theory they could draw 100%.

You shut your filthy mouth...that's none of your (our) damm business!

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The first fix they need to do is treat all the NRs like we get treated when applying outside the state. As it is right now Texas welcomes all NRs to apply with no more cost than a R and have the same chance at all the tags that the Rs have. No 6% or 10% set aside just for NRs, in theory they could draw 100%.

With that said, cubing of points is stupid. They slipped this in without a lot of notice. Hopefully there will be enough opposition that they will change it back.

AK does the same thing... VT... NH

 

[Bigjay73]

Oh absolutely.

The fix would be to go straight lottery and end any point systems.

With refunds for points already paid for? I imagine that that is the highest hurdle.
Side note, met a fellow hunter from NM this weekend, he hates a totally random draw. There's always going to be an unhappy percentage.

 

[bts09]

No refund needed in Texas—you don’t pay for points. They’re just included with the $3 draw.

 

[seeth07]

What point system do they have to reward your multi-year losing streak so your odds to win are better than someone now headed to the casino for the first time?

My response here doesn't apply to Texas just as a fyi.

Anyways, most states you have the choice to invest as much as you desire to secure the hunting opportunity so point systems design correctly give the hunter that option where the longer your investment of money and time into the system, the better the hunt it should be...in theory.

Using Wyoming pronghorn as an example:
You can invest zero points and go hunt a buck, otc on public land right now this fall.

Or you could have applied in the draw 2 months ago and secured with 100 percent chance a unit with slightly more public land to hunt and zero investment in the points system.

Or you could invest 1 to 3 years into points and it opens up units with more public land and less hunters

Or you could invest 5 to 10 points and have a decent amount of public land to look over many bucks and have many chances to fill your tag

Or you can invest 15 to 25 years (what it will be by the time you get there) and draw a unit managed for trophy quality and have lots of public to look over hundreds of bucks to get the b and c buck you waited so long for.

That's how a points system is supposed to work. In theory...

 

[bobbydean]

I really thought the OP first post was joke. Why have a point system on a limited draw.

Texas usually makes sense. This does not make sense.

 

[lpcoutdoors]

Thanks for posting this, I didn't know this was happening. Texas' system has its flaws for sure. My biggest problem is that we actually have A LOT of public land that has very poor quality hunting. Take pronghorn, there is only one place those hunts are offered publicly but there are hundreds of thousands of acres in the panhandle and the trans pecos where there could and should be huntable populations of pronghorn. Anyway.....

On the cubing, its not perfect but it does seem like a good way to increase the chances of those with point, a huge complaint in the past, while still giving the first timer some chance. If I understand the statistics you mathematicians put out there, sounds like there are going to be some very happy high point holders out there.

I have 6-10 points in a dozen categories, so maybe I'm actually going to draw something this year! But dang it, I had other plans and was just playing the lottery for fun, why they gonna go ruining my plans by actually giving me a tag!

 

[jabber]

AK does the same thing... VT... NH

I guess that makes it okay then....

Somebody needs to let NM, CO, AZ, UT, MT, WY, SD, NV etc. know.

 

[bts09]

I have 6-10 points in a dozen categories, so maybe I'm actually going to draw something this year! But dang it, I had other plans and was just playing the lottery for fun, why they gonna go ruining my plans by actually giving me a tag!

I don't think you need to worry about your other plans. But could you please resurrect this thread when the draw happens? I'm asking because Texas refuses to publish the points numbers--like how many points are out there, what the max number is, etc. My suspicion is you are nowhere near the top of the pile with only 6-10 points. I'm guessing each and every category has multiple people who have at least 20 points. But again, I have to guess because Texas doesn't publish this info.

And if I understand how this works, then 10 points should in theory be great--that's 1000 entries into the draw! Except, well, if there are ten people with 20 points, between them they get 80,000 entries into the draw...

People have suggested that all but max point holders should stop applying in Texas. Perhaps this has something to do with why Texas doesn't publish point data? I mean, if there are 10 guys with 30 points applying for the one sheep tag, that's 270,000 entries between them. Against my 3x3x3. And I thought my odds were bad when it was 5000 people applying for one tag...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I guess that makes it okay then....

Somebody needs to let NM, CO, AZ, UT, MT, WY, SD, NV etc. know.

More that there are other states that have a similar system.

I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m on the sidelines watching a state about to dig themselves into a hole. The states you listed all have major issues in their draws that are going to bite them sooner rather than later.

 

[lpcoutdoors]

I don't think you need to worry about your other plans. But could you please resurrect this thread when the draw happens? I'm asking because Texas refuses to publish the points numbers--like how many points are out there, what the max number is, etc. My suspicion is you are nowhere near the top of the pile with only 6-10 points. I'm guessing each and every category has multiple people who have at least 20 points. But again, I have to guess because Texas doesn't publish this info.

And if I understand how this works, then 10 points should in theory be great--that's 1000 entries into the draw! Except, well, if there are ten people with 20 points, between them they get 80,000 entries into the draw...

People have suggested that all but max point holders should stop applying in Texas. Perhaps this has something to do with why Texas doesn't publish point data? I mean, if there are 10 guys with 30 points applying for the one sheep tag, that's 270,000 entries between them. Against my 3x3x3. And I thought my odds were bad when it was 5000 people applying for one tag...

Ha, yeah, I'm not too serious about that. Those folks with alot of points, who have been committed to applying and hopeful all of these years, I hope they draw and have great hunts! And it will be me on some at some point, and you too if you stay in the game. And, over time, there will be a resetting where the folks with alot of points draw and clear out their points. Thus, those coming up in points can get even more hopeful every year!

In any case, this is all just a game, filled with hope and fun!

 

[Keeptrying]

Anyone have a contact at Texas Parks and Wildlife that I could reach out to re: actually getting the points data published? Texas has never published it, but it's starting to sound like they should. Especially if every category has people holding 20+ points, which I'm sure it does.

LOL. The good ole boys have no interest in what you think or want. South Dakota just did this to us. They did everything they could to minimize the mathematical impact in the information they presented to the public. Almost no chance of those new to the system drawing tags, and the odds were long to begin with. Oh well. Plenty of other stuff to hunt.

 

[rmyoung1]

Ha, yeah, I'm not too serious about that. Those folks with alot of points, who have been committed to applying and hopeful all of these years, I hope they draw and have great hunts! And it will be me on some at some point, and you too if you stay in the game. And, over time, there will be a resetting where the folks with alot of points draw and clear out their points. Thus, those coming up in points can get even more hopeful every year!

In any case, this is all just a game, filled with hope and fun!

Everything you said, unfortunately, only works if there are significant numbers of tags to cover the demand. In this case, there aren’t even close to enough. And what happens is that the incremental increases in odds awarded to the top point holders come at the drastic expense of everyone else. The vast majority of people, even very high point holders, will die with their points. People need to understand this.

 

[bts09]

Everything you said, unfortunately, only works if there are significant numbers of tags to cover the demand. In this case, there aren’t even close to enough. And what happens is that the incremental increases in odds awarded to the top point holders come at the drastic expense of everyone else. The vast majority of people, even very high point holders, will die with their points. People need to understand this.

That's how I think I see it, too. Let's say there are "only" 30 people right now with say, 25 bighorn points in Texas. One tag per year. So next year, there will be 29 people with 26 points (because presumably one of them draws this year). Year after that, 28 people with 27 points. And so on, and so forth. And from time to time, maybe someone with only 20 points gets lucky and against probability, draws. I think the point is, unless you currently have max or close to max points, like within 3 points of max (which we don't know what that is, by the way, because Texas), you have no realistic chance of ever drawing. No matter how long you live.

 

[lpcoutdoors]

Everything you said, unfortunately, only works if there are significant numbers of tags to cover the demand. In this case, there aren’t even close to enough. And what happens is that the incremental increases in odds awarded to the top point holders come at the drastic expense of everyone else. The vast majority of people, even very high point holders, will die with their points. People need to understand this.

Yeah, its a conundrum. I guess I figure the folks in charge of all of this, in each state, have the same ideas and hopes we all have and are just trying to adopt the version that best suits their goals. I like that each state does it a little different, helps me choose which states I go for and how. But you are sure right, I'll take most of my points to the grave. But....I'll take more dream hunts done to the grave as well, than I could have done otherwise, private pay and such. And, as you point out, I'll do whatever I can to advocate for the increase in tags, stemming from quality and quantity of access, which will make even more dream hunts happen, for anyone.