Teddy Coming Down

[Randi]

@Randi ...
Does Jesus look like Jason Momoa to you 20 something gals?

Well, since he is almost my dad's age, no But, Mattew Noska might work for me

Also, Jon Kortagarene and his dog Ator might work as well. This one is from Spain. Guess who, here on the forum, suggested I check him out

However, Jesus was not on my mind when I was trying to figure out how to contact them, so let me re think my response to you

This topic has come up before in regards to Jason/Jesus and my grandfather told me Jesus looked like Charlton Heston, whom I do not know. And my grandmother told my grandfather that Heston was Moses. Glass Eye just said Woody Allen, whom I also dont know, Rustneversleeps, has an interesting picture in his head, so at this point, based upon those mentioned by members of this forum and my grandparents.

I dont have a clue

 

[LuketheDog]

Books? Movies? Internet? Museums? Articles? Old newspapers? Education?

I think education already went and that's why the statues are coming down, because we have a bunch of uneducated idiots out there declaring 'wokeness'. Movies are going quietly already, lots of classics have disappeared off streaming services...

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Books? Movies? Internet? Museums? Articles? Old newspapers? Education?

Who is gonna protect these things you mentioned and preserve the real history of this country from the wokeness?

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I think education already went and that's why the statues are coming down, because we have a bunch of uneducated idiots out there declaring 'wokeness'. Movies are going quietly already, lots of classics have disappeared off streaming services...

Don't worry any longer, Gone with the Wind is back on HBO Max. Dodged a bullet on that one. If they would just bring back Paw Patrol we could all get back to MAGA.

 

[Glockster]

I didn’t take too long for them to turn their eyes toward Mount Rushmore.

“Mount Rushmore is a symbol of white supremacy, of structural racism that's still alive and well in society today," said Nick Tilsen, a member of the Oglala Lakota tribe and the president of a local activist organization called NDN Collective. "It's an injustice to actively steal Indigenous people's land then carve the white faces of the conquerors who committed genocide."

While some activists, like Tilsen, want to see the monument removed altogether and the Black Hills returned to the Lakota, others have called for a share in the economic benefits from the region and the tourists it attracts.”

'Faces of the conquerors': Trump trip to Rushmore draws fire

By STEPHEN GROVES-Associated PressNative Americans protesting Trump trip to Mount RushmoreSTEPHEN GROVESAssociated PressSIOUX FALLS, S.D. (A

northplattepost.com

I don’t understand why they say it was stolen, it was clearly conquered or bought.

 

[VikingsGuy]

Who is gonna protect these things you mentioned and preserve the real history of this country from the wokeness?

So much to unpack in such a short sentence.

First, where is the one true "real history" you speak of? After we reach unanimous consent that it is in fact the one true history I will send a copy to a bomb shelter in North Dakota to keep it safe - think "The Foundation". (but I am guessing there is no rush on this as even a panel of "diverse" white male land owners won't agree on the one "true" history)

Second, even if such a "true" history actually existed I am fairly sure it is not the one you learned in the 5th grade.

Third, is your concern that all existing history books that you agree with will be tracked down and expunged, or that many new perspectives are being discussed along side them and you don't like the cognitive dissonance this is causing you?

Fourth, the probability of an actual purging of accurate and fact based history (as distinct from the normal evolution of human experiences and perceptions) occurring is so low that I place it at 1,245th in the list of things that will end this great experiment of a ". . . government of the people, by the people, for the people . . ." Let me know when we fix the top 1,200 and I will start to worry about this.

 

[azelkhntr]

I didn’t take too long for them to turn their eyes toward Mount Rushmore.

“Mount Rushmore is a symbol of white supremacy, of structural racism that's still alive and well in society today," said Nick Tilsen, a member of the Oglala Lakota tribe and the president of a local activist organization called NDN Collective. "It's an injustice to actively steal Indigenous people's land then carve the white faces of the conquerors who committed genocide."

While some activists, like Tilsen, want to see the monument removed altogether and the Black Hills returned to the Lakota, others have called for a share in the economic benefits from the region and the tourists it attracts.”

'Faces of the conquerors': Trump trip to Rushmore draws fire

By STEPHEN GROVES-Associated PressNative Americans protesting Trump trip to Mount RushmoreSTEPHEN GROVESAssociated PressSIOUX FALLS, S.D. (A

northplattepost.com

I don’t understand why they say it was stolen, it was clearly conquered or bought.

If God hadn’t wanted us to have the Black Hills he wouldn’t have put gold there.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I didn’t take too long for them to turn their eyes toward Mount Rushmore.

“Mount Rushmore is a symbol of white supremacy, of structural racism that's still alive and well in society today," said Nick Tilsen, a member of the Oglala Lakota tribe and the president of a local activist organization called NDN Collective. "It's an injustice to actively steal Indigenous people's land then carve the white faces of the conquerors who committed genocide."

While some activists, like Tilsen, want to see the monument removed altogether and the Black Hills returned to the Lakota, others have called for a share in the economic benefits from the region and the tourists it attracts.”

'Faces of the conquerors': Trump trip to Rushmore draws fire

By STEPHEN GROVES-Associated PressNative Americans protesting Trump trip to Mount RushmoreSTEPHEN GROVESAssociated PressSIOUX FALLS, S.D. (A

northplattepost.com

I don’t understand why they say it was stolen, it was clearly conquered or bought.

In the case of the Black Hills, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that the US broke every treaty it signed that "gave" the hills to the Sioux. Rushmore has been a major issue for Indigenous activists since it was first completed. It's why there's a competing Crazy Horse statue (shockingly still unfinished) and calls to get rid of Rushmore have been ongoing since I was a kid. Custer's excursion in the Black Hills represents a massive betrayal of the treaties that were in place, as did the taking of the Hills once gold was discovered.

The westward expansion was one o the largest dislocations and killing of people in the history of the world. IF we can't recognize that, then we really aren't interested in 'true history" or understanding our fellow citizens when it comes to issues like this.

We're still dealing with this issue in 2020. Just look at the fervor over the Grinnell Notch transfer back to the tribes in the Ft Peck Water Compact.

 

[VikingsGuy]

The westward expansion was one of the largest dislocations and killing of people in the history of the world.

I am generally aligned with you on the topic, but I do have to cry foul on the hyperbole. On an impacted population basis is wouldn't make the top 50 (if there was such a sad list) - from an acres captured basis maybe.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I am generally aligned with you on the topic, but I do have to cry foul on the hyperbole. On an impacted population basis is wouldn't make the top 50 (if there was such a sad list) - from an acres captured basis maybe.

I grant that my statement was poorly worded in regards to westwards expansion and concede that the plains tribes that were decimated may not rise to the same population elimination that other events created, but it's also important to remember that there were an estimated 18 million Indigenous people at the time of the Pilgrims landing to under 250,000 by 1890. That all feeds into the movement behind elimination of statues and monuments.

Add on top of that the forced removal of people from their lands to reservations, the Influenza epidemic of 1918, etc and you can see why First Nations activists don't see men of great substance and vision on Rushmore, especially when looking at the written record left behind.

 

[Trial153]

So much to unpack in such a short sentence.

First, where is the one true "real history" you speak of? After we reach unanimous consent that it is in fact the one true history I will send a copy to a bomb shelter in North Dakota to keep it safe - think "The Foundation". (but I am guessing there is no rush on this as even a panel of "diverse" white male land owners won't agree on the one "true" history)

Second, even if such a "true" history actually existed I am fairly sure it is not the one you learned in the 5th grade.

Third, is your concern that all existing history books that you agree with will be tracked down and expunged, or that many new perspectives are being discussed along side them and you don't like the cognitive dissonance this is causing you?

Fourth, the probability of an actual purging of accurate and fact based history (as distinct from the normal evolution of human experiences and perceptions) occurring is so low that I place it at 1,245th in the list of things that will end this great experiment of a ". . . government of the people, by the people, for the people . . ." Let me know when we fix the top 1,200 and I will start to worry about this.

And since the Foundation is laid an Asimov quote is appropriate.

"They won't listen. Do you know why? Because they have certain fixed notions about the past. Any change would be blasphemy in their eyes, even if it were the truth. They don't want the truth; they want their traditions."

 

[Shangobango]

While so many of those posting on this thread are pissing and moaning about the loss of mostly worthless - and arguably damaging - symbolism. Some of us are actually "in the arena". Striving valiantly and attempting - in the face of withering and remarkably stupid opposition from our "fellow" public land outdoorsmen/women - to advance, protect, and solidify the issues under attack by the very same folks that most of the politicians that many these posters support.
So go ahead and whine like snowflakes about shit that largely has nothing to do with public lands, hunting and fishing, or most of the conservation ideas TR advanced and championed.
Sit back and reap the rewards of the work of others - working like hell to take care of "our" (what a joke) issues. I, for one, just got letters published to the Montana Standard and the Bozeman Daily Chronicle's editorial sections regarding MFWP's poor handling of the Madison River Recreation Plan - or lack thereof. Took thought, ambition, and dedication. All gladly undertaken out of concern for "our" issues.
What have you done about Public Land issues lately? Most of the posters on this thread have their head buried so far up their asses that all they can see is their brainstem - where the basest of human function - not thought - resides. I'd love to hear what TR would say, if he could, about the state of the public land sportsman/woman today. You valiant defenders of his statue just maybe wouldn't be so enamored with him after he got done. What a bunch of misled, jump on the bandwagon, crybaby bullshit. Maybe now I'll get banned for good.........................................................................

Hopefully...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

It's why there's a competing Crazy Horse statue (shockingly still unfinished)

A monument not without it's own controversy.

"But others argue that a mountain-size sculpture is a singularly ill-chosen tribute. When Crazy Horse was alive, he was known for his humility, which is considered a key virtue in Lakota culture. He never dressed elaborately or allowed his picture to be taken. (He is said to have responded, “Would you steal my shadow, too?”) Before he died, he asked his family to bury him in an unmarked grave.

There’s also the problem of the location. The Black Hills are known, in the Lakota language, as He Sapa or Paha Sapa—names that are sometimes translated as “the heart of everything that is.” A ninety-nine-year-old elder in the Sicongu Rosebud Sioux Tribe named Marie Brush Breaker-Randall told me that the mountains are “the foundation of the Lakota Nation.” In Lakota stories, people lived beneath them while the world was created. Nick Tilsen, an Oglala who runs an activism collective in Rapid City, told me that Crazy Horse was “a man who fought his entire life” to protect the Black Hills. “To literally blow up a mountain on these sacred lands feels like a massive insult to what he actually stood for,” he said. In 2001, the Lakota activist Russell Means likened the project to “carving up the mountain of Zion.” Charmaine White Face, a spokesperson for the Sioux Nation Treaty Council, called the memorial a disgrace. “Many, many of us, especially those of us who are more traditional, totally abhor it,” she told me. “It’s a sacrilege. It’s wrong.”

Who Speaks for Crazy Horse?

The world’s largest monument is decades in the making and more than a little controversial.

www.newyorker.com

 

[Sytes]

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.”~Dr. Martin Luther King.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

So much to unpack in such a short sentence.

First, where is the one true "real history" you speak of? After we reach unanimous consent that it is in fact the one true history I will send a copy to a bomb shelter in North Dakota to keep it safe - think "The Foundation". (but I am guessing there is no rush on this as even a panel of "diverse" white male land owners won't agree on the one "true" history)

Second, even if such a "true" history actually existed I am fairly sure it is not the one you learned in the 5th grade.

Third, is your concern that all existing history books that you agree with will be tracked down and expunged, or that many new perspectives are being discussed along side them and you don't like the cognitive dissonance this is causing you?

Fourth, the probability of an actual purging of accurate and fact based history (as distinct from the normal evolution of human experiences and perceptions) occurring is so low that I place it at 1,245th in the list of things that will end this great experiment of a ". . . government of the people, by the people, for the people . . ." Let me know when we fix the top 1,200 and I will start to worry about this.

It's happening in front of you everyday. No need to over complicate it.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Teddy used to be a national hero who had his flaws like every human in history with the exception of my Lord and Savior.

The new teaching will be something like this. Teddy was an Indian hating extreme racist who still oppresses people a 120 years later. A very recognizable symbol of white supremacy and systemic racism. Who is still honored by small groups of unwoke white people who just dont get it.

 

[azelkhntr]

I think education already went and that's why the statues are coming down, because we have a bunch of uneducated idiots out there declaring 'wokeness'. Movies are going quietly already, lots of classics have disappeared off streaming services...

Just ordered 30th Anniversary Ed. of Blazing Saddles.

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

And as time and wokeness erodes teddy's legacy we will come to the understanding that the black man who was walking behind him in that long lost statue actually was the brain child behind the national parks but teddy stole his idea.

 

[LWC55]

It's happening in front of you everyday. No need to over complicate it.

Yes, it isn't hard to see. You can look at very recent history that isn't accurate and is a one sided narrative. Reality - thousands riot, loot, police stations are burned, innocent people killed. Headlines (history) - mostly peaceful protests...

 

[Hilljackoutlaw]

Yes, it isn't hard to see. You can look at very recent history that isn't accurate and is a one sided narrative. Reality - thousands riot, loot, police stations are burned, innocent people killed. Headlines (history) - mostly peaceful protests...

To obvious...lol