Stand for the Anthem

[LCH]

What is sad is when a black man who is veteran of Vietnan and who fought for our freedoms is terrified of being ripped from his vehicle, in front of his 12 year old child and thrown to the ground at gun point AGAIN...all because he told a white cop to stop cursing in front of his son. Nobody wants to talk about the real issues. The kneeling, in the NFL has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with our military. There are very few racists in our military as they fight hand in hand with African Americans. It has to do with cops shooting black kids in the back as they try to run from something they are terrified of! It has to do with those cops either not being charged at all or jurys aquiting them and allowing them to go back to work. Or the literally THOUSANDS of black men being exonerated dozens of years later only because of irrefutable DNA, who should have never been incarcerated to begin with. Now I'm starting to get mad. I don't think this forum is for me. I'm going to look for something a little less ignorant. For those of you who aren't, like Cushman...i applaud you and your service, sir!! For the rest of you....Im sorry slavery is over. Perhaps you were simply born in the wrong century!

I encourage you to stick around for the hunting discussions. I typically avoid these debates because nothing good really ever comes of them. In a couple months the forum will once again be dominated by hunting content.

 

[Jwill]

I’m not sure what’s more unamerican. Not standing or forcing people to stand.
I want you to want to stand. Not be forced to.

This.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

Standing for the anthem is a privilege, an honor of being american. This country offers the greatest freedoms on the planet.

Including the freedom of not standing for the anthem.

Until 9/11 the NFL was in the locker room during the anthem and then made a sum of money to come out for the anthem.

The thing is that football is football and has little to do with the anthem.

I enjoy watching the sport, but I do watch it to see who is or who is not standing for the anthem.

I would also rather listen to Pop 2k or Kidsbop than hear the talking heads discuss it on XM radio.

It is a subject that is an instant channel changer.

Stand if you want or kneel if you want, but give me a good football game on the field - is all I want.

 

[MinnesotaHunter]

Part of me feels like our collective annoyance/frustration/concern about this issue is misdirected at these players and the NFL in general. We have legions of politicians, special interests, and media who seem to love to fan the flames every time they seem an opportunity. They make a living by dividing the American people.

I do feel as though their protest is a little misguided. The flag and the anthem represent their freedoms, one if which is freedom of speech and peaceful protest. Perhaps there could be abetter way to raise awareness, but in the end I celebrate their rights. The reality is they are young kids.....

As one of the service members, who has dedicated almost 20 years of my life to the uniform, and spent plenty of time away from my family in foreign places; my real concern is the fact that this divide exists and some Americans choose to see their fellow citizens as the enemy, when the real threat to the bedrock of this country are the people trying to divide us.

 

[maxx]

It just isn't a easy subject at all.

LEO's are like every other professions in this country. The majority of the Police are great people that do a great job and they just want to go home to their kids. The small percentage give a terrible name for the rest.

Police in general have terrible training. They don't have the budget to really train the right way. Tim Kennedy was on Jocko's podcast talking about it.

My biggest gripe. Is this an issue that shouldn't be an issue hell ya you shouldn't get pulled out of your car or shot because of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

Are there bigger problems in the US right now yes yes yes. Are there bigger problems in the black community yes yes and yes. To much poverty, to many fatherless homes, to many people not taking personal responsibility. All these are huge issues that get over looked by the media because they have no sizzle and they don't sell page views.

 

[2rocky]

I’m not sure what’s more unamerican. Not standing or forcing people to stand.
I want you to want to stand. Not be forced to.

Gomer I really respect your perspective on this and couldn't say it any better.

 

[mtmuley]

Thanks guys. Good discussion and info. To those that look to more "hunting" related threads, don't click on the Sports forum. mtmuley

 

[Doublecluck]

My father is black and my mother German. My father was a neonatal surgeon who graduated from the Air Force Academy by the age of 20. When i was 12 (1986) I watched him get drug out of a car, in California, by a white police officer, for absolutely no reason whatsoever! There is a very good reason that upstanding black folk fear law enforcement. As I look mostly white, I do not; however, I certainly understand why others do. I love this country! I will always stand, remove my ball cap and place it over my heart when I hear our anthem being played. Having said that....something MUST change! And forcing someone to stand, in a free society, is not the way to go about it. I understand that the NFL is a job and employers have certain rights to ask their employees to do things. But forcing national pride or religion is not one of those things...in my opinion. Thank you Maxx, for your post!!

I have a honest question for you? Let’s say for a moment you yourself are walking down the street in Los Angeles , Boston, Detroit, etc. at 11 at night. You look back and see three black guys walking behind you. What goes thru your mind? Now same secenario except when you look back there are three white guys.. what goes thru your mind? Honest answer? Is America responsible for the way american culture views the black community? or is the black community responsible for the way America views it?


For me and my family we stand, I truly believe that America and what it stands for, in the context of history and the world, is the best place for all people of every race, religion, etc. I have seen with my own eyes, people that have worked for me come from Guatemala, get citizenship , raise families, buy houses, live amazing lives, lives they would have never lived where they came from. America is far from perfect, but in the context of history it is perfect. If you are not proud enough of that to stand for this countries anthem... then leave...go cowboys...

 

[JLS]

America is far from perfect, but in the context of history it is perfect. If you are not proud enough of that to stand for this countries anthem... then leave...go cowboys...

Absolute ideals like that are totalitarian, are they not?

 

[Schaaf]

Thanks guys. Good discussion and info. To those that look to more "hunting" related threads, don't click on the Sports forum. mtmuley

Yep, this has been a surprisingly decent conversation. I’ll echo Gomer’s thoughts.

 

[VikingsGuy]

I have a honest question for you? Let’s say for a moment you yourself are walking down the street in Los Angeles , Boston, Detroit, etc. at 11 at night. You look back and see three black guys walking behind you. What goes thru your mind? Now same secenario except when you look back there are three white guys.. what goes thru your mind? Honest answer? Is America responsible for the way american culture views the black community? or is the black community responsible for the way America views it?


For me and my family we stand, I truly believe that America and what it stands for, in the context of history and the world, is the best place for all people of every race, religion, etc. I have seen with my own eyes, people that have worked for me come from Guatemala, get citizenship , raise families, buy houses, live amazing lives, lives they would have never lived where they came from. America is far from perfect, but in the context of history it is perfect. If you are not proud enough of that to stand for this countries anthem... then leave...go cowboys...

First, a far more relevant "honest question" for this particular topic is, "Let's say you are a hard working family man driving home one night in any one of a number of American suburbs, would you rather be black pulled over by a white cop or white pulled over by a black cop?" What do you think goes through a black man's mind and how different is it than what goes through your mind when you get pulled over.

Second, I can't believe we are playing the "love it or leave it" card -- how about, "if you love it try to make it better for all its citizens, and if you don't want to make it better for all its citizens maybe you should leave it".

Third, as said before, I will stand for the flag until they bury me, but to me the flag flies proud so that folks including Colorado Boy can challenge the status quo in any peaceful manner they choose.

 

[Sytes]

Requiring employees to stand... is a requirement of employment. Don't like it? Find a football team that values crapping on the million + sworn law enforcement personnel for the 12 individual officers.

Hmm, speak of employment statistics... Not bad.

Our flag is not a cloth catching wind.

 

[JLS]

First, a far more relevant "honest question" for this particular topic is, "Let's say you are a hard working family man driving home one night in any one of a number of American suburbs, would you rather be black pulled over by a white cop or white pulled over by a black cop?" What do you think goes through a black man's mind and how different is it than what goes through your mind when you get pulled over.

Second, I can't believe we are playing the "love it or leave it" card -- how about, "if you love it try to make it better for all its citizens, and if you don't want to make it better for all its citizens maybe you should leave it".

Third, as said before, I will stand for the flag until they bury me, but to me the flag flies proud so that folks including Colorado Boy can challenge the status quo in any peaceful manner they choose.

Amen.

 

[JLS]

Requiring employees to stand... is a requirement of employment. Don't like it? Find a football team that values crapping on the million + sworn law enforcement personnel for the 12 individual officers.

Hmm, speak of employment statistics... Not bad.

Our flag is not a cloth catching wind.

It is certainly an employers right to require standing. I fail to see how not doing so is scrapping on LEOs.

 

[Sytes]

It is certainly an employers right to require standing. I fail to see how not doing so is scrapping on LEOs.

In his acceptance speech for the Ambassador of Conscience Award at the Amnesty International ceremony in Amsterdam on Saturday, former NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick described police killings of African Americans and Latinos in the U.S. as "lawful lynchings."

Lawful lynchings...
Apparently we disagree, JLS.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/539240002

 

[JLS]

Lawful lynchings...
Apparently we disagree, JLS.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/539240002

Look at what people like Brandon Marshall have done in their communities and you will realize this doesn’t just revolve around Colin Kapaernick.

 

[JLS]

Some of the killings probably were very close to lawful lynchings. Others weren’t. If you’re not a bad cop then don’t sweat it. There are more than 12 bad ones out of a million, guaranteed.

Eagles safety Malcolm Jenkins did a sit-down interview on NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt Wednesday and addressed if the protests are good for football.

"That's not my concern. We can talk about social issues and still have a great game," he stated. "We talk about domestic violence for a whole year. We talk about breast cancer for a whole month. Every year. We wear pink on the field and there is no issues with that.

"When we start talking about black issues and issues of race, now all of the sudden we just want football. We don't want all the extra stuff. We just want to watch the game. No you can't (have it both)."

Jenkins is the co-founder of the Players Coalition, which is a group of NFL Players working towards improving police and community relations while advocating for criminal justice and economic reform.

"I think at the end of the day, protest and fighting back is the American way," Jenkins said when asked if the protests are un-American. "That is the most American thing you can do. Use your voice."

 

[LopeHunter]

We don't play the Anthem before a rock concert held in a football stadium. We don't play the Anthem before college graduation in a basketball arena. We don't play the Anthem before the U.S.Post Office opens its doors for the day. We don't play the Anthem before the grocery store opens for the day.

Remind me why the Anthem is played before a football game.

 

[Rancho Loco]

Requiring employees to stand... is a requirement of employment. Don't like it? Find a football team that values crapping on the million + sworn law enforcement personnel for the 12 individual officers.

Hmm, speak of employment statistics... Not bad.

Our flag is not a cloth catching wind.

Any time an elected official in this country criticizes and calls for the end of employment of a citizen for exercising their constitutional rights, is the day any conservative in this country should be very afraid.

Meanwhile while this smokescreen goes on, 20 veterans of the armed forces kill themselves every day. And our national debt is now over 20 trillion dollars, with a budget deficit zooming over a trillion dollars.

But lets keep paying attention to the shiny things tossed at out feet.

 

[fwagner]

I’m not sure what’s more unamerican. Not standing or forcing people to stand.
I want you to want to stand. Not be forced to.

Well said....... it's freedom of speech so I support it whole heartedly. Also, it's called empathy and we need more of it. Personally standing during a song means nothing to me, I'm more concerned about what a person does the other 23 hours 58 minutes of the day.