Spring Bears With Hounds Proposed

I'll pry never bear hunt up there, but I have hounds and have ran both bear and cats with them. And there is nothing like being a true houndsman and running bear and cats its one of the most amazing things I've done. I've never spot and stalked bear in the spring but I definitely want to sometime and will, I believe I would really enjoy that as well. As far as for that bill, I agree I dont think running hounds in the spring there should be allowed. Grizzlies being the main reason.
 
I am surprised they haven’t introduced an Alaska style bill that makes non-residents only allowed to hunt bears with a guide. That seems like the kind of handout these poor hard working small business owner pillar of the community outfitters really need. Oh no did I just give them an idea?
 
If this bill "has to pass" an amendment that might elevate the grudge between spot and stalk and hounds is; in WI we can run with dogs and bait. They switch every other year. Year 1 hounds go the first 2 weeks I believe than baiting starts. Year 2 baiting gets 2 week head start. Might be an option.
 
JLS said:
Have you ever hunted with hounds?

Your dogs pursue pheasants in cover and force them to fly from fear of being caught. No difference between that and a hound pursuing a game animal. I’ve seen how stressed cougars are when they are sleeping the tree.

I’m not trolling anything. Just pointing out the obvious.
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My dogs, like yours, quietly find the birds in cover and hold them on point until I flush and shoot them ... within seconds (but the birds you take are obviously not dispatched as quickly with your far ranging dog). How does that compare to the stress of an animal being chased by howling dogs sometimes for hours? Apples and oranges.

As to your contention that cougars sleep in a tree above a pack of baying hounds: I call bullshit on that one.
 
In all seriousness using hounds in some place like district 704 would be fun. I will own another Leopard Hound or two, but will not hunt Northwestern Montana due to wolves. The last season I ran bobcat/lions there were too many wolf tracks and other hounds men to make it any fun. Chasing coons in the eastern Montana is way more fun
 
OntarioHunter said:
My dogs, like yours, quietly find the birds in cover and hold them on point until I flush and shoot them ... within seconds (but the birds you take are obviously not dispatched as quickly with your far ranging dog). How does that compare to the stress of an animal being chased by howling dogs sometimes for hours? Apples and oranges.

As to your contention that cougars sleep in a tree above a pack of baying hounds: I call bullshit on that one.
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Sorry, but these are mental gymnastics. Cats being run by hounds may oftentimes not even realize they are being pursued until the dogs get within close proximity. Birds run all the time in front of pointing dogs. What's the difference? The dog points, relocates as the bird runs, until the bird is trapped either by lack of cover, a barrier, or another dog.

You can call bullshit all you want. I've seen it.
 
I try to draw the line somewhere reasonably on the side of the animal being pursued. I do love watching my dogs work birds but not to the point where the animals they are chasing suffer excessively. Sure, it's the nature of predation ... but not when it involves satellite GPSs and ATV pursuit vehicles. Sure, wolves, coyotes, and cougars are not nice when they take the same animals. But they don't have a choice. I do. I choose to send an unaware feeding buck to heaven in an instant with one shot (if I'm doing my job). He got to die quickly at home ... not after languishing in some nursing home like most of us. It's not about killing game ... it's about how you do it. I wouldn't want to be hounded to death so why should I wish it on the animals I harvest?
 
JLS said:
Sorry, but these are mental gymnastics. Cats being run by hounds may oftentimes not even realize they are being pursued until the dogs get within close proximity. Birds run all the time in front of pointing dogs. What's the difference? The dog points, relocates as the bird runs, until the bird is trapped either by lack of cover, a barrier, or another dog.

You can call bullshit all you want. I've seen it.
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Oh, right. What is the point of a pointing dog if the birds run from them all the time? As you know well enough, few uplands are runners. Pheasants will run sometimes, even from a stealthy pointer ... but not for miles. Huns are surprisingly mobile if crippled but otherwise they usually prefer to hold and flush. I don't hunt quail but I have never read anything indicating they prefer running to holding. Also unclear about chukars running. From what I have read it seems they prefer to hold and flush, using the steep terrain to their advantage. Certainly all the mountain grouse are not inclined to run at all. Same with sharptails. The dog finds them and you shoot at them. Then they're either dead ... or gone, usually for the rest of the day at least. It's all overwith in a matter of seconds or minutes at most. Not hours. There is minimal or no pursuit involved. I mean really, who do you think you're fooling here? It's not like there aren't other bird hunters following this thread.
 
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OntarioHunter said:
Oh, right. What is the point of a pointing dog if the birds run from them all the time? As you know well enough, few uplands are runners. Pheasants will run sometimes, even from a stealthy pointer ... but not for miles. Huns are surprisingly mobile if crippled but otherwise they usually prefer to hold and flush. I don't hunt quail but I have never read anything indicating they prefer running to holding. Also unclear about chukars running. From what I have read it seems they prefer to hold and flush, using the steep terrain to their advantage. Certainly all the mountain grouse are not inclined to run at all. Same with sharptails. The dog finds them and you shoot them. Then they're either dead ... or gone, usually for the rest of the day at least. It's all overwith in a matter of seconds or minutes at most. Not hours. There is minimal or no pursuit involved. I mean really, who do you think you're fooling here? It's not like there aren't other bird hunters following this thread.
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I'm sure other bird hunters are following this thread, and will see the misinformation that is evident.
 
I've never ever understood when hunters pick apart the hunting methods of other hunters, always thought we were in this all together. e.g. hunting w/hounds, hunting w/bow or gun or muzzleloader, hunting on Sunday, trapping, etc. etc. etc.

"I can't understand why you guys think it's fair to hunt cats/bears/lions with hounds"....."I don't know how you can possibly trap an animal without remorse and not think it's cruel"......"We should have Sunday off from hunting so I can go to church or the rest of the public can enjoy the woods or the outfitters can turn around the new incoming/outgoing hunters".......

Give me a f----kn break, like EYJ said, MOVE ON!
 
So for those who've run hounds for bears, what do your hunts look like on the ground? Like from when you leave the house to getting back to the truck. Just trying to better understand the nuts and bolts.
 
MT Bound said:
I've never ever understood when hunters pick apart the hunting methods of other hunters, always thought we were in this all together. e.g. hunting w/hounds, hunting w/bow or gun or muzzleloader, hunting on Sunday, trapping, etc. etc. etc.

"I can't understand why you guys think it's fair to hunt cats/bears/lions with hounds"....."I don't know how you can possibly trap an animal without remorse and not think it's cruel"......"We should have Sunday off from hunting so I can go to church or the rest of the public can enjoy the woods or the outfitters can turn around the new incoming/outgoing hunters".......

Give me a f----kn break, like EYJ said, MOVE ON!
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Healthy debate within the hunting community about methods of take, seasons, etc are good for the overall health of the sport. While I am not in favor of this bill, I think the guys who have hunted bears with hounds have some good observations, and of course there will be opposition to running game with animals outside of the SE or elsewhere where the niche is long-standing (lions).

As for this bill, I think the focus needs to remain on the unnecessary conflict that it would create, as well as the safety issue for hound & human. MT is not WY or ID or anywhere else due to the widespread interconnectedness of Grizzly bear & black bear habitats.

Let the anti-hunting crowd go off on their anti-hound philosophy, and hunters should stick to the real issues at hand.
 
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SnowyMountaineer said:
So for those who've run hounds for bears, what do your hunts look like on the ground? Like from when you leave the house to getting back to the truck. Just trying to better understand the nuts and bolts.
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Well when I hunt bears with hounds, we usually drive forest roads looking for the dogs to strike. Then once the dogs dogs are heading in one direction ill head that way either on foot or by road depending on if the road can get me closer. The last bear I harvested was extremely grueling hiking to the top of the mountain thru deadfall and extremely steep. Sometimes by the time you get all your dogs gathered back up if they don't stick together it will be 10:00 or so at night by the time you get back to camp. And then some days you don't strike a track hot enough to catch.
 
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