Spring Bears With Hounds Proposed

[EYJONAS!]

Not that my opinion matters but I’m with Buzz, resource 1st. Nothing else matters without the resource being sustainable. The question was never answered as to why a parent couldnt take their kid out during the MT extremely lengthily season structures, why need additional days?

Why do black bears need more spring management by brining in hounds? I’m all for saving more fawns and calves if that’s the angle...

I don't agree with the statement that it's a management process. Which is a angle that's been utilized to push this through. I don't think we need more "management" the western side of the state produces enough bears in the spring season harvest and I don't know how much more areas can take. Which is why I ask the question, how is this opportunity gonna work with the already successful spring and fall seasons in place?

Is there gonna be separate tags? Quotas for every district? Different dates? Draw only like Utah? Sub Quotas?

I can see the Island ranges taking a massive and unfortunate hit if there's not some serious structure in place. Think about how many houndsman and wanna be houndsman live in the Bozeman area, with the abundance of forest rds and access in the Bridgers and the already over the top harvest there wouldn't be a bear left up there...... which is the argument that's been presented by the opposing party.

 

[BuzzH]

I don't agree with the statement that it's a management process. Which is a angle that's been utilized to push this through. I don't think we need more "management" the western side of the state produces enough bears in the spring season harvest and I don't know how much more areas can take. Which is why I ask the question, how is this opportunity gonna work with the already successful spring and fall seasons in place?

Is there gonna be separate tags? Quotas for every district? Different dates? Draw only like Utah? Sub Quotas?

I can see the Island ranges taking a massive and unfortunate hit if there's not some serious structure in place. Think about how many houndsman and wanna be houndsman live in the Bozeman area, with the abundance of forest rds and access in the Bridgers and the already over the top harvest there wouldn't be a bear left up there...... which is the argument that's been presented by the opposing party.

Opportunity...get ya some.

Wildlife is an infinite resource in Montana.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I don't agree with the statement that it's a management process. Which is a angle that's been utilized to push this through. I don't think we need more "management" the western side of the state produces enough bears in the spring season harvest and I don't know how much more areas can take. Which is why I ask the question, how is this opportunity gonna work with the already successful spring and fall seasons in place?

Is there gonna be separate tags? Quotas for every district? Different dates? Draw only like Utah? Sub Quotas?

I can see the Island ranges taking a massive and unfortunate hit if there's not some serious structure in place. Think about how many houndsman and wanna be houndsman live in the Bozeman area, with the abundance of forest rds and access in the Bridgers and the already over the top harvest there wouldn't be a bear left up there...... which is the argument that's been presented by the opposing party.

Here's the version of the bill that passed: https://leg.mt.gov/bills/2021/billpdf/HB0468.pdf

The bill gives the commission the ability to set seasons & localtions where hounds will be used, so there will have to be a season setting tentative sent out, and FWP will have to present to the commission how they think this would work, areas, etc.

There is no special permit or tag for the use of hounds while hunting, just like lions, but you do have to have theD-3 hound handling permit in order to run hounds for bears in the spring.
The spring season is set in statute, which should be objectionable to us all, as providing stuff like that in statute removes the ability of FWP to exercise caution or change season length if there is a conflict with Grizzlies emerging from dens (which I remain convinced there will be - MT Grizzly bear densities are a lot greater than ID). The only other option the commission would have would be a series of emergency closure orders to stop spring training, or simply disallow it entirely in some districts.

Personally, I'm done arguing about this. It passed, it will be signed, and the next step is to advocate for a season structure that doesn't impact the resource in a detrimental fashion.

 

[Schaaf]

If you are actively advocating AGAINST youth opportunity you are a cancer to our sport.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Opportunity...get ya some.

Wildlife is an infinite resource in Montana.

Coming from the guy that's killed around 80 elk and isn't 70 years old..... opportunity get ya some right buzzy.

 

[MTTW]

If we gave a shit about kids our preference points would not be squared.

 

[BuzzH]

Coming from the guy that's killed around 80 elk and isn't 70 years old..... opportunity get ya some right buzzy.

77, and I'm not even 53 years old yet.

Funny though, we don't pound on elk in WY for 6 months and have bull to cow ratio's in every one of our general units over 20 per 100 post harvest. We have reasonable herd objectives that the GF actually adjusts when necessary (usually to increase the objective numbers). The areas under special management, post harvest bull to cow ratio's range from 35-65 bulls per 100 cows. Some of those areas have 25%+ draw odds.

We have nice things in Wyoming...because we actually do realize wildlife is a finite resource. Opportunity is fine if you have the resource's to sustain it.

Montana should try it sometime.

Montana manages a different way, elk numbers are so dismal in the NW part of the State, the biologists have given up. As one bio said, "with numbers this low, killing a few more won't matter".

Of course the Bob Marshall flight survey was pretty impressive...202 observed elk, which is better than unit 202, where they observed 8.

The good thing is, there's another 9 days of muzzleloader season now in those areas. I guess killing what's left won't matter either.

 

[rwc101]

Wonder how popular an early youth hunt would be where the kid can hunt their parents' tag.

 

[Sytes]

Personally, I'm done arguing about this. It passed, it will be signed, and the next step is to advocate for a season structure that doesn't impact the resource in a detrimental fashion.

'bout sums up this thread's story.

 

[Eric Albus]

Gee Eric, my youngest nephew has a deer A tag and qualifies for the 2 day youth season...we need a place to hunt, you good with setting him up on one of your leases, the one with the biggest bucks on it will do?

You're not? You must hate kids and not want to get kids involved and active in the sport.

It depends, you bringing your checkbook or expecting me to subsidize your nephew?

 

[corndog1]

It depends, you bringing your checkbook or expecting me to subsidize your nephew?

Might as well subsidize him. That will make up for your outfitter welfare.

 

[BuzzH]

It depends, you bringing your checkbook or expecting me to subsidize your nephew?

No thanks, I don't have to buy a "friend" to kill a deer. I'll leave that for your clients.

 

[257 Wby Mag]

Hell ya, lotta non resident houndsmen will love to come over and slick up a color phase grease pig or 2.