Sigh-ting in issues

[44hunter45]

I gave up on glass bedding.
Both forms of Acraglass were too soft.
I use Devcon now.

Devcon is the chit.

Don't pay Brownell's price for it. I get the smaller packages off Amazon. Free shipping with PRIME.
I always use the steel version.

 

[David658]

It sounds like your scope has given up the ghost. You need to shoot the M77 with a scope that is known to be good.

Brand new Leupold.

 

[David658]

Range Report.

Began the morning with a decent group at 100, just about 2" high like it should be. Moved to 200, not happy with the group, but minute of elk. EXCEPT...

If I shoot a string of three starting with a cold barrel, the first shot is a flyer. Not an inch, but three or more inches. Then the group tightens, then it starts to get wonky again. The flyer is predictable, up and left.

Shot enough to know I won't be using this rifle in three weeks. I shoot fine with my wife's rifle, only drawback is that she is 5'3" and I am 6'2" - fit is not prime, but I can do it (I am accustomed to shooting ill-fitting rifles with the long arms and neck I have. That will be my elk rifle for this hunt.

Ibex comes in February. My plan is to make the M77 a project, but not one on a time line. Going to get a Ruger American in .308, I think, move my scope over to that rifle, and dial in for Ibex. I am not a modern rifle gunsmith (can do some decent work on traditional muzzleloaders), so the M77 will be a learning project with plenty of time to get done. It's hard for me, a hard core traditionalist, to pay money for a rifle that doesn't have a wood stock, but I have to hit center when I shoot. The v-block bedding pillars in the Ruger make sense, and since I might find myself hunting in wet country with the same rifle I use here in the dry lands, the plastic stock will be tolerable.

So, for the time being, the problem is solved. Now to get to work packing for an elk hunt.

 

[Boarmaster]

Range Report.

Began the morning with a decent group at 100, just about 2" high like it should be. Moved to 200, not happy with the group, but minute of elk. EXCEPT...

If I shoot a string of three starting with a cold barrel, the first shot is a flyer. Not an inch, but three or more inches. Then the group tightens, then it starts to get wonky again. The flyer is predictable, up and left.

Shot enough to know I won't be using this rifle in three weeks. I shoot fine with my wife's rifle, only drawback is that she is 5'3" and I am 6'2" - fit is not prime, but I can do it (I am accustomed to shooting ill-fitting rifles with the long arms and neck I have. That will be my elk rifle for this hunt.

Ibex comes in February. My plan is to make the M77 a project, but not one on a time line. Going to get a Ruger American in .308, I think, move my scope over to that rifle, and dial in for Ibex. I am not a modern rifle gunsmith (can do some decent work on traditional muzzleloaders), so the M77 will be a learning project with plenty of time to get done. It's hard for me, a hard core traditionalist, to pay money for a rifle that doesn't have a wood stock, but I have to hit center when I shoot. The v-block bedding pillars in the Ruger make sense, and since I might find myself hunting in wet country with the same rifle I use here in the dry lands, the plastic stock will be tolerable.

So, for the time being, the problem is solved. Now to get to work packing for an elk hunt.

Good luck on your hunt.

 

[elkchsr1]

Brand new Leupold.

Wouldn’t hang my hat on anything Leupold. The last new VX-II that I bought didn’t track correctly right out of the box.

 

[JLS]

A scope isn’t all of a sudden going to go bad between 100 and 200 yards. A decent group at 100, then shit groups at further ranges indicates to me is either poor shooter form, an unstable bullet, or a combination there of.

 

[elkchsr1]

A scope isn’t all of a sudden going to go bad between 100 and 200 yards. A decent group at 100, then shit groups at further ranges indicates to me is either poor shooter form, an unstable bullet, or a combination there of.

It could if he is adjusting parallax, magnification, or dialing for elevation although that seems unlikely at 200.

 

[David658]

Final update on the situation until after the elk hunt. Found a gunsmith that would pillar bed and free-float the 77 for about $350, but the gun has to go to the shop 2 months. I can buy a Hogue fully aluminum bedded stock for a free float for about $250. Much as I like the walnut stock, I think the drop-in might be the approach as a project. The Ruger American answers several questions, and will be the approach for the Ibex hunt, in .308. The '06 will simply become a project, which I welcome into the fold of all my other projects.

From what I can tell (rewinding to the M77 range report), the stock is designed for a single contact point at the nose of the stock. But with our very wet summer (for us), the stock almost certainly changed dimensionally. Between that, and the rapid heating of the light barrel, I think I have the combination for frustration at this point in time. The gunsmith explained bits and pieces of some of the apparent challenges in getting the M77MkII properly bedded and accurized. I've struggled with this rifle for almost ten years, but have only recently moved to centerfire from ML rifles in my hunting. Several learning opportunities and Aha! moments in this process.

 

[howl]

Sending that Leupold to Leupold under warranty would ensure it's not the problem.

Bedding is simple. 2 months and $350 is a red flag on that smith unless he's in extraordinarily high demand.

 

[David658]

Picking up my rifle on Friday. Total $$$ for both the bedding and a trigger job is $120 - I'll spend that much on gas and feeding me and the wife to drive up and back, but this seems to be a good shop (how often does a gunsmith talk you out of spending $$?). I can't help but think this is the issue, but if I still cannot hit the barn door I will send the scope to Leupold.

I've fought this rifle since I've had it, and as I finally learn more about shooting these suppository guns the bedding seems to be the likeliest solution. Fingers crossed.

 

[OntarioHunter]

Man, this story has a familiar ring to it. The symptoms were exactly what my 30-06 Springfield 03A3 was showing at the range. To remedy I started with reccessed crowning the barrel. No change. Then I free floated the barrel (after a horse wreck in the early 80s I had to replace the stock my dad put on it in 1962 and glass bedded the entire barrel trough). That didn't do it. I bought an electronic scale and case trimmer to upgrade my loading for more precise consistency. Nope. The two year-old Nikon scope had already been returned to factory after first African trip when horizontal windage went wonky so it was unlikely the problem with range erratics was a scope issue. Dad tapped the screws for front base in center of forward receiver bridge instead of placing the base at back of bridge just ahead of ejection/loading port. When I changed to short necked Nikon scope I had to do some modification to the base so the rings would fit on the scope. Didn't think it was the problem but just in case I changed to a factory extended base to accommodate the scope's short neck. No improvement. My gunsmith African hunting buddy deep cleaned the bore with reverse electrolysis. Removed a ton of crap and exposed some corrosion in the bore near the chamber (no doubt from corrosive military primers). Unlikely a problem in that location. Another corroded area about a third way back from muzzle might be more concerning. Most concerning however was the rifling was overall in very poor condition. Dad cut nearly four inches off the original 2-land late production barrel so I suspect there was originally more corrosion at the muzzle. Perhaps the South Pacific climate didn't agree with this old war horse. Through a long process of elimination I had to conclude the barrel was shot (pun intended). If I wanted to continue hunting with the gun my dad made for me, I would have to replace the barrel ... or risk maiming some poor animal unnecessarily. I knew what choice Dad would make. Stuff wears out and you fix it or get something else. No way was I giving up on Dad's gun. He would probably chuckle and think it a bit dopey, but he knows how much I love and miss him. So I picked up another sporterized military barrel (4-land like the one on the second Springfield he made for himself). It was a nightmare getting the new barrel put on the gun but it's now shooting good groups and no more flyers. Before coming to Montana I dropped in a Timney trigger. Not an easy undertaking (I recommend the later model Timney for Sprinfields that has safety included) but WELL worth the effort. What a difference! Made a big improvement in grouping.

Sounds to me like you may also have a bad barrel. It happens from the factory sometimes. You may yet have a few more possibilities to check out. This gun means a lot to you and I say do whatever it takes to keep it going. It's how you keep the donor going. Good luck.

 

[ImBillT]

Wouldn’t hang my hat on anything Leupold. The last new VX-II that I bought didn’t track correctly right out of the box.

Leupold has never had a reputation for tracking well.

OP-Buy something made by someone other than Ruger if you’re looking for accuracy. I love their .22lr pistols, but that’s about it.

 

[std7mag]

Leupold has never had a reputation for tracking well.

OP-Buy something made by someone other than Ruger if you’re looking for accuracy. I love their .22lr pistols, but that’s about it.

The MK V appearantly isn't too bad for tracking.
Cutting Edge is using one on one of their King Of 2 Miles rifles.

And both of my 77 MK II shoot more than acceptable to me.

 

[David658]

Man, this story has a familiar ring to it. The symptoms were exactly what my 30-06 Springfield 03A3 was showing at the range. To remedy I started with reccessed crowning the barrel. No change. Then I free floated the barrel (after a horse wreck in the early 80s I had to replace the stock my dad put on it in 1962 and glass bedded the entire barrel trough). That didn't do it. I bought an electronic scale and case trimmer to upgrade my loading for more precise consistency. Nope. The two year-old Nikon scope had already been returned to factory after first African trip when horizontal windage went wonky so it was unlikely the problem with range erratics was a scope issue. Dad tapped the screws for front base in center of forward receiver bridge instead of placing the base at back of bridge just ahead of ejection/loading port. When I changed to short necked Nikon scope I had to do some modification to the base so the rings would fit on the scope. Didn't think it was the problem but just in case I changed to a factory extended base to accommodate the scope's short neck. No improvement. My gunsmith African hunting buddy deep cleaned the bore with reverse electrolysis. Removed a ton of crap and exposed some corrosion in the bore near the chamber (no doubt from corrosive military primers). Unlikely a problem in that location. Another corroded area about a third way back from muzzle might be more concerning. Most concerning however was the rifling was overall in very poor condition. Dad cut nearly four inches off the original 2-land late production barrel so I suspect there was originally more corrosion at the muzzle. Perhaps the South Pacific climate didn't agree with this old war horse. Through a long process of elimination I had to conclude the barrel was shot (pun intended). If I wanted to continue hunting with the gun my dad made for me, I would have to replace the barrel ... or risk maiming some poor animal unnecessarily. I knew what choice Dad would make. Stuff wears out and you fix it or get something else. No way was I giving up on Dad's gun. He would probably chuckle and think it a bit dopey, but he knows how much I love and miss him. So I picked up another sporterized military barrel (4-land like the one on the second Springfield he made for himself). It was a nightmare getting the new barrel put on the gun but it's now shooting good groups and no more flyers. Before coming to Montana I dropped in a Timney trigger. Not an easy undertaking (I recommend the later model Timney for Sprinfields that has safety included) but WELL worth the effort. What a difference! Made a big improvement in grouping.

Sounds to me like you may also have a bad barrel. It happens from the factory sometimes. You may yet have a few more possibilities to check out. This gun means a lot to you and I say do whatever it takes to keep it going. It's how you keep the donor going. Good luck.

I now have the rifle in my possession, with the bedding/free floating done, and a trigger job with a 2-1/2# pull. Nice and crisp trigger, no more creep. Due to work travel it may take a coupla weeks before I get to the range, but at least we are moving forward. And, if it takes a barrel job, that's what I'll do. A new barrel is cheaper than one of the cheap out of the box moa rifles, and I really want this rifle to work for me (a gift from my aging father in law).

 

[ImBillT]

The MK V appearantly isn't too bad for tracking.
Cutting Edge is using one on one of their King Of 2 Miles rifles.

And both of my 77 MK II shoot more than acceptable to me.

I doubt the OP has a MK V on this rifle. Whether Leupold produces one or two lines of scope that retail for over $2K and manage not to be “too bad for tracking” or not, they are not known for their great tracking. That’s the reputation they earned over a period of many decades among people who care about tracking.

I really like Leupold, and since I prefer not to dial in the field, I just need a scope to hold zero. Leupold has a lot of things going for them, and I like the Leupold scopes that I have.

 

[p_ham]

I doubt the OP has a MK V on this rifle. Whether Leupold produces one or two lines of scope that retail for over $2K and manage not to be “too bad for tracking” or not, they are not known for their great tracking. That’s the reputation they earned over a period of many decades among people who care about tracking.

I really like Leupold, and since I prefer not to dial in the field, I just need a scope to hold zero. Leupold has a lot of things going for them, and I like the Leupold scopes that I have.

I've never had any issues with tracking on any of my Leupolds. I don't know that I would use the dials on the Freedom line, but all my VX3i's have been great from 100yds to a mile.

I don't think the M77s are any more prone to accuracy problems than any other mfr. People like to hate them because of the cast reciever.

The American line has also proven itself to be very accurate.

 

[Alaska Bush Hunter]

I have a Ruger M77 and it is a 1/2 moa gun, that is with custom barrel but still they can be exceptionally accurate. If it were me i would pull the action out and either glass bed it myself or get a good smith to do it for me. Lap the rings so that the scope can't be tweaked in them, I know that it is hard in this climate but see if you can get your hands on some other ammo. It likely isn't copper fouling, all of my center fire rifles shoot moa or less and I haven't cleaned for copper fouling in years. The 30-06 in my experience is not a particularly accurate round. One thing that you might do is take it to a smith and have them take a quick look at the crown although if it is shooting at 100 yards that isn't the likely culprit.

Suggest Warne Mountain Tech Rings and Rail.
Used the Var X III for years most excellent

 

[Don Fischer]

Wouldn’t hang my hat on anything Leupold. The last new VX-II that I bought didn’t track correctly right out of the box.

Hum! Just as I believed, there are detractors for every product made. Or maybe it is simply true that everybody has a bad product get through now and then. I have never had a Leupold scope but if I was to find one I liked, I'd buy it based on the great reputation it has. Wait, I do have two sorta Leupold's, they're the Leupold/Redfield. Love them! The problem with the detractors is they are few and far between and hard to say if they had a one time problem or an on going problem of simply a brain fart reading to mean what they think they want to believe

 

[std7mag]

Suggest Warne Mountain Tech Rings and Rail.
Used the Var X III for years most excellent

A rail doesn't fit on a Ruger 77, or 77 MKII.
They have a unique mounting system.

 

[Alaska Bush Hunter]

I have a Ruger M77 and it is a 1/2 moa gun, that is with custom barrel but still they can be exceptionally accurate. If it were me i would pull the action out and either glass bed it myself or get a good smith to do it for me. Lap the rings so that the scope can't be tweaked in them, I know that it is hard in this climate but see if you can get your hands on some other ammo. It likely isn't copper fouling, all of my center fire rifles shoot moa or less and I haven't cleaned for copper fouling in years. The 30-06 in my experience is not a particularly accurate round. One thing that you might do is take it to a smith and have them take a quick look at the crown although if it is shooting at 100 yards that isn't the likely culprit.

Suggest Warne Mountain Tech Rings and Rail

A rail doesn't fit on a Ruger 77, or 77 MKII.
They have a unique mounting system.

Great Gun the Ruger 77
With that I suggest Warne Quick release lever rings that’s uses the dovetailed receiver of your Ruger 77. I had them for a 77 and No 1 you can take your scope off and on by the levers to use your open sights or switch scopes . Very versatile!
Again no lapping required

1R7LM Warne 1 inch Ruger M77, QD, Med Matte Rings

Easily install and remove your optics from your Ruger rifle with this set of Maxima One-Inch QD rings, sold in pairs to complement the M77’s tapered receiver.

warnescopemounts.com