should teachers be armed, at school

[schartzross]

First of I would) like to say that Im 26yrs old and have recently became a dad to an awsome baby boy who is now 7mo old, and since becoming a father it has put some of these tragedys that happen more often then anyone would like or can fathom into even a darker and more quite frankly more depressing light than I previously thought could happen. Although I tend to agree with the more pro 2nd amendment freedom bear arms in most situations i think that most everyone that has commented on this thread has a valid point. I could be completely wrong and will probably be told by a few or more that I am but i feel like all we could sit here and argue about what the solution to this problem is, is it gun control, is it better mental health screening, is it early detection of crazies for lack of a better words, the understanding of right and wrong, ect, ect. To me it is all situational and the answer in each setting could be one of your aformentioned answers. To say that we should arm teachers to me is a very long stretch, and the same time to say that teachers are imcapable of the abilities to carry and adaquately defend themselves and students is complete ludacris, best example is the 27 year old teacher who hid her students in the closet at a moments notice and told the gunman (even though she knew she would probably be harmed) that her students were in the gym and she was shot and killed. I could and already have rambled on to long but i just hope that we remember that when someone suggests a solution to this problem however juvenile or mature that they are only trying to give their 2cents on a solution to a problem, because it is in the end something that angers us all and wounds our hearts deeply. This will not be an easy problem to solve and the fact that one of the main emotions it draws out of our society is anger, that we have no certain direction or place to send it means we might send it towards each other a little to much, and as much as i am up for a good debate, i hope it doesnt turn into a hateful pissing match that over shadows the initinial incedent that can only be healed by prayers and love.

just my 2cents

 

[anIDhunter]

If we armed teachers how long until some overworked underpaid teacher snaps and kills a classroom of kids. I give it five years. Its not the answer.

What's to stop him now? Oh sorry, I forgot, it's a gun free zone.

 

[1_pointer]

Come take a long look at teachers in Calif. public schools and you'll think twice about arming them.

"Holier than Thou" liberal know-it-alls, union lackeys seething with anger and man hating lesbians. None of them should be allowed in the same room with a loaded gun.

So you are in favor of laws that restrict whom can own a gun?

 

[dustinf]

BTW, teachers are allowed to carry in Isreal. I never heard of a shooting there like here. Different place, different situation but it seems to at least not be working there.

They are all ex-military as well.

 

[schmalts]

What's to stop him now? Oh sorry, I forgot, it's a gun free zone.

LOL, right on! So are post offices!
one wants to kill, they will find a way and a tool to use beit a car, knife, poison, bomb, arrow, and yes even a gun

 

[Devil Diver Down]

LOL, right on! So are post offices!
one wants to kill, they will find a way and a tool to use beit a car, knife, poison, bomb, arrow, and yes even a gun

Most places of work are gun free zones - that's hardly a barometer. No place is immune and I sincerely doubt someone sick enough to shoot a bunch of people is going to worry about armed people on the premises as a deterrent. Rational thought, I suspect, is not tops on their totem pole.

Look at the shooting at Fort Hood a few years back - plenty of armed people at hand and still 12 dead and many more wounded. A few miles away (and 18 years before that) there were 20+ killed at a cafeteria in Killeen. Should we also arm fry cooks?

I agree with second part of your post - psychos who want to kill people will find a way and making something illegal (guns, knives, poisons, etc.) will not eliminate them or keep the killing from happening. Reactionary folks can and will demonize anything within pointing distance - assault rifles, video games, tv shows, and the list goes on and on.

There are always going to be loose screws. There are no diagnostic machines for them to be hooked up to - no objective way to single them out. To me, it still comes down to people taking personal responsibility for themselves and their families. The rest is really beyond our control.

 

[Oak]

There are always going to be loose screws. There are no diagnostic machines for them to be hooked up to - no objective way to single them out. To me, it still comes down to people taking personal responsibility for themselves and their families. The rest is really beyond our control.

Actually, many of these people have been diagnosed with mental illness for years, and there are very few options for their families. I have grown up with a mentally ill younger brother who has had multiple diagnoses since before he was 10 years old. He has been in and out of jail, special institutions for troubled youth, and state hospitals for the mentally ill. He has been prescribed all kinds of drugs over the years. He is not unknown to "the system," and yet he is a member of society free to go and do as he pleases. Yet I would not be surprised to wake up some day and find his name at the center of a terrible headline like this. What is your solution?

 

[sweetnectar]

Oak,
Hopefully if your mentally ill brother goes berserk it end like this.
http://youtu.be/TqRQ0VRRO9Y

I have an old high school friend that has developed some mental illness. I see him once and a while but make sure he isn't around my family. I don't want to endanger my family with him. It saddens me. He is relatively nice but unpredictable at times. If he went on a crazy spree I wouldn't blame anyone for putting him down. I'd even do it. I don't even know how accountable before God some crazy people are. So I like your question, how do we prevent them from getting into a position were they need killing? There are lots of things we can do to help avoid these bad situations. I don't think you can ever fully prevent it and so that is another reason I see it is important to have the means of stopping an attack available to teachers if they choose. I also think it is important to note that not all of these attacks involve a crazy person. Some people just choose murder.

 

[Oak]

Always fun to joke about mental illness. We even do it in our family sometimes, to keep from crying.

But seriously, what is the solution? My question was not directed at DDD. And if you don't want to see some serious changes to our gun laws, you might want to give it some thought, and maybe even jump on board with finding a solution. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe there isn't one?

 

[schmalts]

Always fun to joke about mental illness. We even do it in our family sometimes, to keep from crying.

But seriously, what is the solution? My question was not directed at DDD. And if you don't want to see some serious changes to our gun laws, you might want to give it some thought, and maybe even jump on board with finding a solution. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe there isn't one?

There are answers, but not too many will touch the solution in politics. It is extremely hard to get someone committed to a mental health place and keep them there. That would be a start, I mean infringing on the rights of those who without a doubt are mentally ill with violent tendencies. Good luck with that, it is always easier to infringe on the rights of those who are law abiding instead because they usually don't fight back much.

 

[BuzzH]

I think a good place to start is funding mental health hospitals and providing care for those that need it. I also believe that funding research into whats causing mental health problems is a step in the right direction, if we're ever going to find ways to cure, or at least control the problem. That comes with a price tag attached that not many are going to be willing to pay for, in particular those from the R camp.

What is apparent is that how the Country is currently dealing with mental illness is not working at all.

 

[jlmatthew]

So....I asked the wife what the plan is if someone came in the school shooting? She said hiding behind the desks is the only option. There is no door to the outside, only the hallway.

Guess I'll still think she should be allowed to protect herself and classroom if it came down to it

 

[schmalts]

Teachers should not be forced to arm themselves. But if one wants to do so, and has proper training I would not want to deny it to them. These kids are already exposed to carry conceal more times they know if they live in the states that allow it. Keep in mind many of these adults killed in this shooting were trying to overtake the guy and or protect the kids.
If it makes sense to arm airline pilots if they are qualified why is it so bad to arm the place that actually has been the target of nut jobs lately?

 

[Dinkshooter]

Who knew you HT dweezils were so cutting edge.................

http://now.msn.com/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother-says-mom-of-mentally-ill-son

 

[jlmatthew]

Teachers should not be forced to arm themselves. But if one wants to do so, and has proper training I would not want to deny it to them. These kids are already exposed to carry conceal more times they know if they live in the states that allow it. Keep in mind many of these adults killed in this shooting were trying to overtake the guy and or protect the kids.
If it makes sense to arm airline pilots if they are qualified why is it so bad to arm the place that actually has been the target of nut jobs lately?

I like the way you think!

 

[Big Fin]

Always fun to joke about mental illness. We even do it in our family sometimes, to keep from crying.

But seriously, what is the solution? My question was not directed at DDD. And if you don't want to see some serious changes to our gun laws, you might want to give it some thought, and maybe even jump on board with finding a solution. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe there isn't one?

Oak, great question/challenge. All the hyperbole on both sides is not giving us any value. In fact, focusing on all the rhetoric only serves to waste energy that could be used to improve the situation and if the public sentiment is what I expect it to be, probably puts the cause of gun control even further ahead.

I for one, am willing to do the following:

I am willing to support improved funding for our completely neglected mental health system. Yeah, it costs me money, but if it saves lives and improves our rights as gun owners, it is a price I am willing to pay. I am willing to vote for and support candidates who lead that cause.

I am willing to pay for the needed improvements to our school security, both facilities and personnel. It will cost money. When the vote comes for my school district or state to raise taxes to fund this, count me in. I will gladly pay my share, even more than my share, if need be. It will make schools safer, hopefully save some lives, improve education, and lessen the likelihood of events like this bringing more pressure on gun ownership. I will vote for and support candidates who lead these efforts.

I am willing to make donations to gun causes that will help with education about firearms and proper storage and handling. I would prefer the NRA spend more money and space in their magazine emphasizing things such as this, and less on political rants. I look at how many of these tragedies are from people who steal legally purchased guns. It is not good enough to say, "we have rules that make it illegal to steal guns, so not much more we can do." Proper storage of guns, especially if you have worries that someone in our home or family has mental struggles, can probably help prevent some of these issues. That is an issue of awareness and education.

As an avid gun owner and Life Member of the NRA, I will demand some beneficial action to improve the situation beyond merely citing the comfortable rhetoric spoon-fed as a supposed solution. The problem will not be solved with rhetoric, even if it is true rhetoric. If anything engagement in such battles wastes energy needed to find true solutions.

I am willing to listen to discussion of those who advocate that benefit could come from some changes to our current gun laws, though I cannot think of any changes that would stop situations like this from happening. If I am not willing to engage in a discussion of their ideas, even if I cannot visualize any way I would agree with them, how can I expect them to listen to my points on the topic. Yeah, might be mentally painful and a waste of time, but if there is a small iota of chance it could save a life and reduce the pressure gun owners are going to face from events like this, I am willing to invest that time.

I will continue to support legislation that increases shooting opportunities in urban and suburban areas. I feel if more people have a chance to shoot, as a result of having shooting ranges nearby, we are all better off. More people are informed of gun safety, proper gun storage, etc. A bill that had provisions to increase shooting facilities was killed in the last month, a casualty of politics as usual.

I will continue my boycott of Hollywood productions that are nothing more than shoot 'em up, bang, bang action movies that make life seem like a disposable object. I miss a lot of popular movies, but I have little use for funding a mechanism (Hollywood) who makes death and violence a commodity, then takes no responsibility for their complicity to this very complex problem.

My house will continue to be a "violent video game-free zone." Maybe I am wrong, but I have always held that violent video games do nothing more than move the pendulum toward a callousness that gives life little value. I never have, and never will, allow those in my house. I feel the same about funding these companies as I do Hollywood.

I am not willing to act as though arming teachers is the solution, then walking away as though the problem is solved. I am not willing to put any further burden on teachers who are already handcuffed and being asked more and more to be less teacher and more daycare provider. I will demand something more significant be done to make teachers, students, and parents feel comfortable that their children are safe.

No one thing I can think of will solve it, but if any idea helps get us one step further to improvement, it is an idea worth considering. I will listen to any ideas that might be part of progress.

 

[Devil Diver Down]

Actually, many of these people have been diagnosed with mental illness for years, and there are very few options for their families. I have grown up with a mentally ill younger brother who has had multiple diagnoses since before he was 10 years old. He has been in and out of jail, special institutions for troubled youth, and state hospitals for the mentally ill. He has been prescribed all kinds of drugs over the years. He is not unknown to "the system," and yet he is a member of society free to go and do as he pleases. Yet I would not be surprised to wake up some day and find his name at the center of a terrible headline like this. What is your solution?

I know you weren't directing at me, but I'll do my best to answer, though it's mostly repeating what I said earlier: Each person, each family has to take personal responsibility for their own.

My youngest may or may not be a 'loose screw.' He is somewhat like the boy in the article Dink linked - a very startling and informative read, for those who would take a few minutes to read it - though he has yet to exhibit such extreme behavior. Brilliant kid, has had multiple diagnoses - what I meant but did not make clear when I referenced 'no objective way' was that behaviors signal different diseases, with different 'treatments' to different people - similar to the boy whose mother wrote the article. It is very easy for Physician A to diagnose as Problem A and add a course of treatment A.

When that invariably does not work (sometimes they do I'm sure but they haven't for us, yet) Psychiatrist B will diagnose as Problem B to be treated with Meds B and so on. I say he 'may or not be a loose screw' because we have been told that "it may be an issue he'll grow out of" and many other things. Some of the outlooks aren't too rosy. There has been little to no agreement between parties in diagnosis.

In any case, he is my responsibility and we love him so we will do anything we can to keep him out of harm's way, while making sure he doesn't pose a threat to anyone else either. In a few years, when he turns 18, I suspect the problems (if he hasn't 'outgrown' them) become harder to manage. But we'll do our best - stay in constant contact with him, monitor his progress, make sure he has access to the best help we can afford, figure out if he has access to weapons, etc. It is, as you already know, complicated on its best day.

But speaking to the topic of the thread, I do wonder how arming teachers would help when it did not keep it happening on an military base with many trained and armed folks.

 

[pa mt man]

But speaking to the topic of the thread, I do wonder how arming teachers would help when it did not keep it happening on an military base with many trained and armed folks.

I'm still not in favor of arming teachers but trained guards yes. They will not stop them all the time but it would be worth it for the times they save kids lives.

 

[anIDhunter]

But speaking to the topic of the thread, I do wonder how arming teachers would help when it did not keep it happening on an military base with many trained and armed folks.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but in the Fort Hood case I believe most of his targets were unarmed by base policy. An armed individual did intervene after some time and put a stop to it but only after he had commited much carnage. This type of violence happens quickly and seconds count, not minutes to respond.



Pat

 

[danr55]

THe only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun, is a good guy with a gun.