should teachers be armed, at school

[RUT JUNKEY]

Our teachers certainly don't need to start carrying a gun, but I might not be oppossed to teachers carrying pepper spray, a stun gun or something similar.

whats the range on that pepper spray? I'm guessing not that of a gun. ( I know that to be true)
Lot's of very good ideas on this thread, but, In my opinion, if the whacko thinks/knows that some/most of the people "could" be packing. . .I would guess it would make he/she think twice about going into the establishment. This goes for schools, malls, grocery stores, anywhere. . .if they think someone has the ability to fight back. . .they may rethink entering. I believe that the whacko in the mall a few weeks ago was confronted by an armed citizen and decided it was better to commit suicide that fight. If someone is so sick in the head that he/she is set on killing these children he would have done it by any means. . .how about at recess? could he have ran over 20+ in a car as they played? sure. could he have killed some with a knife? sure ( In I believe China last week or so a man killed a bunch of people with a knife) Its a sick world right now. Sad. just my 2 cents. RJ

 

[fowladdict]

whats the range on that pepper spray? I'm guessing not that of a gun. ( I know that to be true)

Teachers don't need the range of a gun. Pepper spray will reach from one side of the classroom to the other.

 

[RUT JUNKEY]

Teachers don't need the range of a gun. Pepper spray will reach from one side of the classroom to the other.

what I meant was. . .If a guy has a .223 and shooting up the place. . .pepper spray will do ZERO good unless you are right on top of the person. . .might as well use it on yourself so you don't see whats coming next. I'm not saying arm the teachers. I'm saying let it be known that the teachers may or may not be packing. . .so anyone that tries to do this horrific crime again may think. . .at least for a min.

 

[Nemont]

i guess i havent been to prison to know what its like but my kindergartners school already has each classroom door locked at all times, most doors to the outside except a couple are locked now. locking a couple more doors isnt going to change anything that the kids will see and the armed guard would not have to be like a prison officer. not saying shackle them and put them all in jump suits!!! ha...

locking your doors at home wouldnt seem like prison would it?

This is in boise idaho, a safe place to live and they already do most of it.

Why would you think this is prison like? the kids wouldnt even know the difference except a new guy standing at the front. just because its locked up doesnt mean its a prison. the kids cant go outside anyway except for recess. the kids still get the same great schooling, respect etc as they do now. i see it being nothing like prison. Sounds like safety to me.

A better solution would be???

You want bullet proof glass, armed guards and controlled entry where nobody gets in or out. That goes far beyond locking your doors at home.

Do you put your kids on a school bus ever or will you? Far more kids are killed in bus accidents then are killed in school shootings.

As much as parents are up in arms, so to speak, about school shootings they ignore risks that are far more likely to happen to their kids every day.

Life is not a zero risk endeavor and that includes your kids. I am not trying make light of this tragedy but I think we have to have a rational response to it and we have to remember that school shooting are actually rare events.

Nemont

 

[rhomas]

Nemont, your post reminded me of this. Why don't school buses have seat belts for the passengers and not just the driver?????

Down here, we already have armed cops in the schools, closed gates, and classroom doors that must be unlocked from the inside. There are uniform requirements, and all sorts of restrictions and rules against bullying, yet the school cops are the biggest bullies on campus, the kids who break the rules create a situation where the school board just changes the rules, and when there is an actual emergency parents don't get notified and the schools lie about what actually happened. If some how, parents do manage to find out something is going on at school, there is no way to contact your kid, much less go and get them out, unless your kid happens to be one who is breaking the rules and has a cell phone at school, so they can contact you, and they are capable of escaping a locked classroom that has no windows that can be opened and then once outside, are able to high jump an 8 foot fence with razor wire on top!

 

[Nemont]

Nemont, your post reminded me of this. Why don't school buses have seat belts for the passengers and not just the driver?????

Because parents don't make it a priority is the reason. Just look at how much time has been spent on the issue of arming teachers and zero on make school bus rides safer. People are reactionary I guess. The same people that worry that their young children might get shot at school also walk them to the school bus and put them on it without a concern in the world.

People don't look at risk in a realistic way.

Nemont

 

[Straight Arrow]

Why don't school buses have seat belts for the passengers and not just the driver?????

They do for the rural school in my little town. Perhaps all should ... but that's a different conversation which each school district may want to have.

Nemont is correct; it's a matter of priorities. Unfortunately, this recent tragedy results in emotional conversations about priorities, not necessarily looking at the risk management analysis usually a part of establishing laws, rules, policies, and other responsible mitigation of risks.

Hopefully, the rhetoric will calm down prior to any real action being taken regarding potential further gun laws. Some constructive discussion is already going on regarding mental health care and reasonable security measures for schools.

 

[MNElkNut]

I dont think the answer is arming all the teachers. Teachers are a cross section of society and as such, some would be poor fits to possessing, let alone using a firearm.

Having said that, the idea that someone....a teacher....a principal...a janitor, whomever, would have access to a firearm is something that I am open to. Could that person be trained? Absolutely. Would it cost more come school levy time? Sure, but it would be pennies per family when applied across most districts. Now would be a good time to ask for the funds.

next thing is signage. Take down those stupid gun-free zone signs and replace them with signs that say that there are highly trained, heavily armed people on this premises. Some schools may not even have an armed person on site, but put the sign up anyway. The Aurora movie theatre had 7 theatres within 20 minutes of his house. 1 of them was a gun free theatre and that is the one he picked, even though it was not the closest to his house. I read an article that said that every single mass murder where more than 3 people were killed since 1950 happened in gun-free buildings except the gabrielle giffords tragedy which happened outside.

another idea. These creeps are not gladiators. They usually off themselves when they hear the police. So why not have a firm, authoritative voice come over the puplic address system and "direct" a SWAT team. The creep will not know if it is the real one or not. Tell the nutcase that they are coming for him.

Maybe people smarter than me can tweak these kind of ideas to make them even better. But this I know, gun free zones, visitor check in policies, and laws and regulations are not going to stop these idiots.

 

[orion23]

You want bullet proof glass, armed guards and controlled entry where nobody gets in or out. That goes far beyond locking your doors at home.

Do you put your kids on a school bus ever or will you? Far more kids are killed in bus accidents then are killed in school shootings.

As much as parents are up in arms, so to speak, about school shootings they ignore risks that are far more likely to happen to their kids every day.

Life is not a zero risk endeavor and that includes your kids. I am not trying make light of this tragedy but I think we have to have a rational response to it and we have to remember that school shooting are actually rare events.

Nemont

anyone can leave that wants to leave, you just have to have permission to get in. if the kids dont know the difference, who friggin cares what its like!

yeah, they are always rare until it happens to your child.

so it sounds like your solution is to do nothing??? its just a risk we need to take to have our kids get an education??? ...... buy locking some doors is a bad idea.. Right!

 

[TheJason]

what I meant was. . .If a guy has a .223 and shooting up the place. . .pepper spray will do ZERO good unless you are right on top of the person. . .might as well use it on yourself so you don't see whats coming next. I'm not saying arm the teachers. I'm saying let it be known that the teachers may or may not be packing. . .so anyone that tries to do this horrific crime again may think. . .at least for a min.

One can fight through pepper spray quite easily once the initial shock/pain of it. Watch the training at any police academy, they force the recruits to fight through it. A nut job won't just drop his gun when he gets sprayed, he'll keep shooting.

That's why cops don't use pepper spray to disarm a shooter, they use a .45. Even with a taser, at some point you still have to go hands on. Cops have died trying to use a taser on an armed subject.

 

[orion23]

Because parents don't make it a priority is the reason. Just look at how much time has been spent on the issue of arming teachers and zero on make school bus rides safer. People are reactionary I guess. The same people that worry that their young children might get shot at school also walk them to the school bus and put them on it without a concern in the world.

People don't look at risk in a realistic way.

Nemont

tho i see your point here, i also think your not quite comparing apples to apples. I know dead is dead but an auto accident isnt the same as a cold blooded murder. I think the emotional aspect is much different.

also do we know why there are no seatbelts??? is there a good justifiable reason that superceeds having them? i dont know??

 

[Straight Arrow]

but it would be pennies per family when applied across most districts

MNElkNut, you do have some good points, but the point quoted above is the fiscal reasoning that drives taxpayers crazy. The cumulative effect of all the special interest solutions about a myriad of issues, each of which can be funded by a few pennies each, the cost of a pizza, one tank of gas, a six-pack of beverages, or some other example that is meant to show you just how little it will cost you adds up to a tax bill that breaks the back of most families trying to get ahead. And once those "pennies per family" are added on, do they ever get the job done and then get deducted?

I agree that enhanced school security needs discussion, but be careful how you try to sell it.

 

[Nemont]

anyone can leave that wants to leave, you just have to have permission to get in. if the kids dont know the difference, who friggin cares what its like!

yeah, they are always rare until it happens to your child.

so it sounds like your solution is to do nothing??? its just a risk we need to take to have our kids get an education??? ...... buy locking some doors is a bad idea.. Right!

Here is the problem, find some place where I said to do nothing. I said the solution has to be rationale and thought out, not emotional.

If you think locking kids in rooms and having armed guards is the solution by all means lead the charge. Good luck.

While we need to secure building and understand that this could happen remember the school in Sandy Hook had almost all those measure in place and the gun man shot through the door to gain entry.

If you think I wouldn't react if it was one of my own kids then you are an idiot.

Nemont

 

[Gunner46]

If a citizen is eligible for a conceal carry permit, I don't have any problem with them packing, no matter where. A McD's, a Mall, bus station, school, airport.... The authorities have backgrounded that citizan, and cleared them for a permit. Why allow some nimrod Admnistrator to 'Policy' overirde a given. Private orginizations forbid carrying on their premises, at there own peril. Why? I personally feel comfort in knowing that Bubba, Joe, and Cindy Lou have my back.

I DO have a problem with a the Teachers Union having input on this concept.

Tighten up on the the criminals that have already processed through the system. LOOSEN up on the restrictive process of having reported, documented unstables being free to walk the streets !!

It's really simple folks.

 

[jerrym]

also do we know why there are no seatbelts??? is there a good justifiable reason that superceeds having them? i dont know??

The bus company that is contracted out by our school says there are buses that have had seat belts and with those buses way too many kids were hurt by the seat belts by kids hitting each other with them, then would help them in a crash. Seems weird to me but there is your answer.

 

[orion23]

Here is the problem, find some place where I said to do nothing. I said the solution has to be rationale and thought out, not emotional.

If you think locking kids in rooms and having armed guards is the solution by all means lead the charge. Good luck.

While we need to secure building and understand that this could happen remember the school in Sandy Hook had almost all those measure in place and the gun man shot through the door to gain entry.

If you think I wouldn't react if it was one of my own kids then you are an idiot.

Nemont

well thought out huh??? but your knee jerk reaction is "they are called prisons" You have all the answers dont you. It was just a suggestion and i cant see where there would be a problem with it. Who cares what you think??? If the kids dont think its a prison, they feel safe, then whats the big deal?? I never said that is definitely the solution... just an idea for discussion, not for pricks like you to just down play like its a stupid idea. Im not sure where the idiot comment comes from either but now im just beginning to expect "well thought out" comments like this from you.

I understand its an emotional subject, and some ideas are better than others. but for someone that is saying we need to have a well thought out outcome for this subject, your comments on here dont seem so well thought out.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Except in rare instances, armed teachers will not be the accepted method for the thousands and thousands of school districts across the nation.
Even though it's been advocated there, I seriously doubt that it will be the norm in Texas either, although perhaps those teachers who want to be armed, may be able to in certain rural districts.

As supporters of the 2nd Amendment, I think our time can be much better spent in discussing and developing realistic practical security solutions for schools and other facilities and to figure out how to more effectively treat the mentally ill and to come up with improved ways to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill and criminals ... while protecting the rights of responsible gun owners. It is apparent that at a national level there is going to be some serious proposals, some which likely will try to limit the 2nd Amendment. We can come up with better ideas to protect the 2nd Amendment than the much opposed naive notion of arming reluctant teachers or even those who want to pack a pistol in the classroom.

 

[rhomas]

Yesterday, the SC state legislature discussed allowing teachers who have a CCW to carry in the schools, after completing additional training and marksmanship courses. This isn't designed to arm teachers, instead it's designed to allow those licensed teachers to carry concealed in an environment that has been previously prohibited.

 

[huntme]

they just need to lock the schools up and have an armed guard. doesnt matter if he is old and retired, just his presence will help. dont let anyone in without checking in through a window (bullet proof of course) and have the armed guard let them in. No one needs to be going in and out of a school anyway.

every classroom should be locked also.

these kids are not in prison,so why would you put them in one now,you are refering to a prison,do we want our kids going to prison every day?
our kids allready dont get good schooling,now you want to keep the parents,and family away from there kids untill some armed rent a dope,says you can come into a building you are paying for,if they are my kids,and let me say this again,if they are my kids,then i being the parrent,or guardian of said kids should have access to said kids that are mine at any time i need to,because they are my kids,not the rent a dope,behind the bullet proof glass,or the teacher who is teaching them,they are mine!

 

[Topgun 30-06]

huntme---You might not call it a prison, but most schools are locked up at a certain time each day to try and prevent people from coming and going just like a prison. Many also have police and/or armed security guards tooand have for years. I know that and haven't had kids in school for 30 years and shook my head after reading your comments. I think you are overacting a bunch and you would still have what you want after showing proper ID to get in. Maybe you should consider home schooling!