Sheep Hunting covered in New York Times (Positive article for hunters)

[The Hedgehog]

The article reads as though auction tags are the majority of funding when in fact it's the minority by a very large margin. I believe this was intentional. (Perception is reality)

It wouldn't take more than a paragraph to give a few facts about where and who funds a majority of wildlife conservation and associated economic impacts.

I'd be interested in seeing this laid out here, just for sheep (relevant to this article), maybe just in MT (to keep it simple)..

Auction tag revenue, super tag revenue, resident/nonresident application/license revenue and what portion of those go directly to Montana sheep.

 

[BuzzH]

I'd be interested in seeing this laid out here, just for sheep (relevant to this article), maybe just in MT (to keep it simple)..

Auction tag revenue, super tag revenue, resident/nonresident application/license revenue and what portion of those go directly to Montana sheep.

Many are NOT going to like where this leads...just fair warning.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Just the facts.

 

[Big Fin]

I'd be interested in seeing this laid out here, just for sheep (relevant to this article), maybe just in MT (to keep it simple)..

Auction tag revenue, super tag revenue, resident/nonresident application/license revenue and what portion of those go directly to Montana sheep.

For 2016, here are some numbers:

Resident apps 15,501 X $10 per app = $155,010

Non-resident apps 7,631 X $50 per app = $381,550

Resident Tags issued 296 X $125 per tag = $37,000

Non-resident Tags issued 53 X $1,250 per tag = $66,250

Non-resident point/license/conservation fees 7,631 X $45 per = $343,395 (nothing added for resident points/licenses/fees as they probably would have paid those elsewhere)

Total fees for apps, tags, points = $983,205 (adding nothing for the P-R match fees that come with each base license sold)

I don't have the fees for auction or super tags.

EDIT - 2016 Auction tag went for $305,000.

 

[BuzzH]

The sheep program costs to the WYGF in 2015 was $2,448,326. Revenue generated via PR, license fees, general fund, federal/state grants for sheep was $1,673,227.

In other words, the sheep program does NOT pay for itself. Even assuming an average price of 50K for the 5 Governors sheep tags, we're talking $250,000. The problem is though, that the GF does NOT directly receive that Governors tag sheep money. They apply for grants through WWTF, and do receive some of it, but not all of it. Its true that 70% of the money that is raised through the sale goes to sheep related conservation projects in Wyoming. True that it relieves some of the strain on the sheep management budget, but not 250K worth actually hits the ground, more like 175K.

That still leaves a total revenue loss to the Department, even applying 175K in Governors tags, to the tune of about $430,000. Meaning that the sheep program doesn't even come close to paying for itself.

It also means that the "average sportsmen" in Wyoming are providing nearly 2.5 million to sheep management, while the governors tags are providing 250K...so the contribution provided by the average guys are 10X the amount provided by Richie rich. Yet, the NYT story didn't mention the average sheep applicant/hunter much, if at all. Surely didn't provide any facts in regard to actual numbers.

Not only that, but guys that aren't even buying sheep licenses and/or applying are subsidizing the sheep program to the tune of over 400K.

We're doing this, so that 195 people can hunt sheep.

Contrast that with Wyoming Pronghorn.

Total revenue from pronghorn in 2015 was $10,204,101...total program cost was $4,009,107.

In 2015, 48,452 licenses were issued to pronghorn hunters in Wyoming.

Why, TF, is the NYT running articles about high priced auction sheep tags, when:

1. No mention of how or where the money is being spent from sheep auction tags (I mean HOW and WHERE really, with facts).
2. Average guys are paying 10X more (at least in Wyoming) in support of sheep.
3. Other species are subsidizing the losing sheep program (from a revenue standpoint) in Wyoming.

Which species is providing the most opportunity and the most funding for the GF and ultimately all wildlife?

Seems to me the real wildlife conservation story is getting lost in the curl of a horn and the price of an Auction permit.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Thank God for WY antelope. And now I think I know what might be useful about small bucks and doe mule deer in eastern MT.

 

[Elkmagnet]

I'd be interested in seeing this laid out here, just for sheep (relevant to this article), maybe just in MT (to keep it simple)..

Auction tag revenue, super tag revenue, resident/nonresident application/license revenue and what portion of those go directly to Montana sheep.

This would be a intentionally narrow scope chosen to back your point of view.
Why would only sheep related funding apply? How are you going to devide the department general funds? Every time a truck is used for sheep related activity every time a CO patrols sheep country or his hours when he investigates something sheep related. How many sheep would we have left without enforcement officers? What about every time a biologist makes a decision that affects sheep. Sure the study he's reading might have been funded by sheep specific funds but was his time in the meeting to set a season? Did they log that hour as a our that was charged from the Sheep fund? This could go on forever.
To ignore that is to say this is doing nothing for sheep.

 

[BuzzH]

For those inclined to learn about WYGF funding, what makes what, and where the money goes.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/About Us/Commission/WGFD_ANNUALREPORT_2016.pdf

 

[The Hedgehog]

This would be a intentionally narrow scope chosen to back your point of view.

Since you seem to know, what is my point of view?

 

[Deleted member 18333]

For those inclined to learn about WYGF funding, what makes what, and where the money goes.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/About Us/Commission/WGFD_ANNUALREPORT_2016.pdf

Go to Sport Fishing to find the biggest drain on the Department.

 

[Elkmagnet]

Since you seem to know, what is my point of view?

Don't let what I wrote distract you from the point.

 

[Big Fin]

I am getting 561 tags total including the unlimited tags. This is from last years statistics page in the regs.

Hmm. Not sure where the difference is, unless it comes from the ewe tags, which I didn't put in there. I look closer.

 

[Big Fin]

Hmm. Not sure where the difference is, unless it comes from the ewe tags, which I didn't put in there. I look closer.

Aw crap. I just noticed that I only had the list where a non-resident drew a tag in 2015 or 2016. You are right. There were another 212 that were issued to residents, between ewe tags and ram tags I missed. Serious omission on my part. The revenue for those other tags would increase the numbers I stated. Sorry.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Don't let what I wrote distract you from the point.

Your babbling is difficult to follow.

 

[Elkmagnet]

OK my bad.:W:
I'll try again. As I stated before I thought you intentionally chose a narrow scope in order to achieve a desired result. As of now you have convinced me that you did so out of pure ignorance I apologize for my previous comment.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I've no desired result, outside of seeing numbers or data (facts) based on sheep revenues. Both Randy and Buzz complied. Here's your sign.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Aw crap. I just noticed that I only had the list where a non-resident drew a tag in 2015 or 2016. You are right. There were another 212 that were issued to residents, between ewe tags and ram tags I missed. Serious omission on my part. The revenue for those other tags would increase the numbers I stated. Sorry.

Where are you guys getting these numbers? Link? Does this include the Tendoy extermination experiment?

PS. duncemagnet, I'm honestly not trying to refute global warming, just curious to the totals on sheep $ and use for mgt - which is somewhat tied to the NYT article referenced in this subject line of this thread.

 

[Big Fin]

Where are you guys getting these numbers? Link? Does this include the Tendoy extermination experiment?

I got my numbers at this link and added in what I found for unlimited tag sales. http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/planahunt/huntingGuides/msg/default.html

 

[Elkmagnet]

PS. duncemagnet, I'm honestly not trying to refute global warming, just curious to the totals on sheep $ and use for mgt - which is somewhat tied to the NYT article referenced in this subject line of this thread.

Ohhhh you got me! Shall we do some yo momma jokes?
What do you think about the numbers?

 

[The Hedgehog]

What do you think about the numbers?

Looks like we count on selling a SHIT PILE of region 7 antelope and mule deer B-tags to make up for those el-cheapo bighorn sheep permits.