Selling Public LandHR 621 and 622: Do We All Agree that Jason Chaffetz is a Coward?

[rtraverdavis]

Does anyone know what sort of an impact there may be to contact these representatives who are pushing for the sale of Our Public Lands, even if they are from another state than my own? I mean, is Jason Chaffetz (perhaps the biggest coward in DC) going to give two craps about my opposition to his plans if I'm neither a constituent of his nor a member of his party? I have no affect on the stability of his office no matter how I feel. I've emailed my own representatives here in Washington State many times, but what about these big players from outside the influence of my actual vote? It seems like anything I have to say to people like Chaffetz will be fart in the wind status, especially knowing there's some moneyed nefarious influence with their hand on the small of his back.
Is the point just to flood the inboxes of these bastards with a resounding voice of opposition, or is there an effectiveness to this that I'm unaware of? I'm just trying to figure out how to be most productive in the fight.

 

[Wild Bill]

Does anyone know what sort of an impact there may be to contact these representatives who are pushing for the sale of Our Public Lands, even if they are from another state than my own? I mean, is Jason Chaffetz (perhaps the biggest coward in DC) going to give two craps about my opposition to his plans if I'm neither a constituent of his nor a member of his party? I have no affect on the stability of his office no matter how I feel. I've emailed my own representatives here in Washington State many times, but what about these big players from outside the influence of my actual vote? It seems like anything I have to say to people like Chaffetz will be fart in the wind status, especially knowing there's some moneyed nefarious influence with their hand on the small of his back.
Is the point just to flood the inboxes of these bastards with a resounding voice of opposition, or is there an effectiveness to this that I'm unaware of? I'm just trying to figure out how to be most productive in the fight.

I'm not sure of the effectiveness of the effort in that sense, however I still take the time to contact reps/sens in places that I have connections to. I grew up in MN and my folks still live there so my rep there and 2 senators get my opinion, as well as in SD where I lived for the last 6 years before moving to CO. I use either my parents address or my old address that I know isn't occupied, as contact info. I figure it can't hunt to do and is little effort. In my opinion, these guys need to be hearing it from all directions.

 

[beginnerhunter]

My rep told me any transfer would have to reach a 60 vote threshold in the Senate. Is this true? If it is, don't forget to contact your senators as well since they will probably be the last barrier (unless Trump is willing to veto).

 

[utah400elk]

RidgeRebel,

I lived and worked in Utah for over 20 years. IMO most of the Utah voters are sheeple..because for the most part they will do whatever they are told and not question why? There are numerous alternatives to voting strictly party by lines. Utah is the only place I have seen people run on the platform that they will vote straight party lines every time and it has proven to be a successful tactic for that state. The Utah reps get a pass because they are part of the good old boy network and are predominate members of the church. I have lived in numerous other states and have never seen that. I am sure it exists but it is the norm in Utah. A lot of the crazy land stuff is coming from Utah and the corruption and cronyism in that state is what cause me to move.

 

[marksjeep]

Thanks for the heads up James. In the heat of things I got him confused with a different guy. I'm fairly new in town and confuse the names sometimes. Noticed I said he is a Rep. instead of a Sen., as well. I make sure to do as much thanking as shaming when it comes to supporters of these issues. Either way I'll do more homework and address him, and others, accordingly.

Scott Tipton is your Representative based on your location. H.R. 621 has been referred to the House Natural Resources Committee. Rep. Tipton is a member of that committee so this bill will be in front of your Rep shortly. Contact him here. https://tipton.house.gov/contact-me/email-me

 

[hank4elk]

RidgeRebel,

I lived and worked in Utah for over 20 years. IMO most of the Utah voters are sheeple..because for the most part they will do whatever they are told and not question why? There are numerous alternatives to voting strictly party by lines. Utah is the only place I have seen people run on the platform that they will vote straight party lines every time and it has proven to be a successful tactic for that state. The Utah reps get a pass because they are part of the good old boy network and are predominate members of the church. I have lived in numerous other states and have never seen that. I am sure it exists but it is the norm in Utah. A lot of the crazy land stuff is coming from Utah and the corruption and cronyism in that state is what cause me to move.

I'm in the most red county in NM. Same thing here. I estimate conservatively 90% of the residents make their living one way or another either directly on or due to the large amount of public lands we have.
Yet once again they so into the "Win" for the R's they are giddy like kids. They really think THEY won.
Got a FB note from a rancher buddy saying give him a chance.....you think the sky is falling!
Well I do know when I'm being hailed on and pissed on.
What do I say to him when he does not own the lands he leases for cattle and no pension,healthcare or SS?
Half his life is state hwy dpt. work and just retired.That is his nest egg besides the family place.

Some how laughing or I told you so does not help me. Or anyone.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

This was shared by Jared Frasier on the MT BHA Fbpage.
https://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/planning/planning_overview/lands_potentially0.html
If I'm understanding it correctly, it lists the Upper Missouri River Breaks NM.
If there were ever a place to fight for, this is it.

If I understand it correctly it shows the potential for trading 80 acres of BLM within the Upper Missouri River Break NM for 71 acres of private land within that area. Not the entire UMRBNM.

I looked at the lands listed on the Green River Wyoming RMP, the area I am most familiar with, and it is very limited acreage within that RMP and largely not much for recreation. One of these sections is just down the street from my home and is surrounded by residential areas. It was given to the county to build a fire training facility for the local fire district.

I am not supportive of this Bill and realize that this is first step in the Transfer process but I also think there are misunderstandings as to what land is being talked about. These are lands that the BLM long ago determined where suitable for sale or exchange. They had to meet suitable criteria for this determination and recreational value is one of those criteria. Someone please tell me if I am wrong on this? I support the fight against Transfer in all its forms but I think we all need to be well informed before we react to things like this. Quite possibly me included.

 

[NoWiser]

If I understand it correctly it shows the potential for trading 80 acres of BLM within the Upper Missouri River Break NM for 71 acres of private land within that area. Not the entire UMRBNM.

I looked at the lands listed on the Green River Wyoming RMP, the area I am most familiar with, and it is very limited acreage within that RMP and largely not much for recreation. One of these sections is just down the street from my home and is surrounded by residential areas. It was given to the county to build a fire training facility for the local fire district.

I am not supportive of this Bill and realize that this is first step in the Transfer process but I also think there are misunderstandings as to what land is being talked about. These are lands that the BLM long ago determined where suitable for sale or exchange. They had to meet suitable criteria for this determination and recreational value is one of those criteria. Someone please tell me if I am wrong on this? I support the fight against Transfer in all its forms but I think we all need to be well informed before we react to things like this. Quite possibly me included.

I've hunted antelope on at least 3 sections deemed saleable, and I've seen antelope on all 3 of those sections. My supper last night came from that hunt.

 

[Nameless Range]

If I understand it correctly it shows the potential for trading 80 acres of BLM within the Upper Missouri River Break NM for 71 acres of private land within that area. Not the entire UMRBNM.

They had to meet suitable criteria for this determination and recreational value is one of those criteria. Someone please tell me if I am wrong on this? I support the fight against Transfer in all its forms but I think we all need to be well informed before we react to things like this. Quite possibly me included.

I agree we need to be informed. The BLM has not made it easy to discern which lands are available for disposal, as their RMP templates seem to differ from region to region.

Here is the link for the Butte Region lands for disposal.

https://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/mt/field_offices/butte/rod.Par.98406.File.dat/appg.pdf

As my earlier post about my daughter's first fish implies, plenty of these parcels have recreational value, from fishing to hunting to hiking. Some are inaccessible, but so many are not. I have only reviewed the Butte Region, and I can tell you with certainty that good hunting and fishing lands are being put up for "disposal". I've also heard from others that many parcels with hunting and fishing value are on the chopping block in other regions.

 

[James Riley]

It is interesting. A guy like me would be more than happy to swap high development value public land by town for high environmental value private land in the sticks.
However, those town folk are often attached to that public land for their own recreation.
And do you go dollar for dollar, or acre for acre?
What if the town folk are good with it and so is everyone else as determined by a public process? And by everyone, I mean non-residents, hunters, tree huggers, etc.
I could be wrong and we should keep every square inch. I can see how the Republican camel might get his nose under the tent.

 

[fowladdict]

However, those town folk are often attached to that public land for their own recreation.

Yes, this is what makes some places more desirable to live than others. Having those recreation areas so close to town is appealing.

 

[Southern Elk]

I agree we need to be informed. The BLM has not made it easy to discern which lands are available for disposal, as their RMP templates seem to differ from region to region.

Here is the link for the Butte Region lands for disposal.

https://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/mt/field_offices/butte/rod.Par.98406.File.dat/appg.pdf

As my earlier post about my daughter's first fish implies, plenty of these parcels have recreational value, from fishing to hunting to hiking. Some are inaccessible, but so many are not. I have only reviewed the Butte Region, and I can tell you with certainty that good hunting and fishing lands are being put up for "disposal". I've also heard from others that many parcels with hunting and fishing value are on the chopping block in other regions.

NR, can you shed any light on the history of this list? How long has something like this existed? Are lands routinely sold or traded that are on these lists?

Also, are we sure that the current bill is referring to these lands? This whole thing seems like smoke and mirrors to me, with the lack of transparency.

 

[Nameless Range]

NR, can you shed any light on the history of this list? How long has something like this existed? Are lands routinely sold or traded that are on these lists?

Also, are we sure that the current bill is referring to these lands? This whole thing seems like smoke and mirrors to me, with the lack of transparency.

I was unaware such a list existed until someone posted it on the Montana BCHA facebook page. I can tell you that I have been using some of the land on this list my whole life.

Whether or not the current bill is referring to these lists is the crux. I would like verification on that. But people who seem to be in the know imply these lists are what the bill refers to.

 

[JoseCuervo]

If you need phone scripts to pass along to your non-hunting friends, these are good, and anyone can support them.

If you are FROM any of the Committee Member’s Districts:

I’m _____, a constituent of Congressman/woman ______. I am calling in regards to HR 621. The public lands in our district are incredibly important and the loss of these public lands would be devastating for our local and state economies. The Department of the Interior estimates that $16.9 billion is spent in local economies across the country from people visiting national lands and over $600 billion in benefits to the outdoor community. I urge Congressman/woman ____ to vote against HR621 to keep much needed revenue and jobs in our communities.



If you are from OUTSIDE the Committee Member’s Districts:

I am calling Congressman/woman ____ regarding HR621. I am concerned about the loss of public lands in the State of ____. (Optional: [My family and] I have visited _____ (location in state), we very much enjoyed the national lands that your state had to offer.) I urge your to vote against HR621 to ensure your communities and state continue to reap the many benefits, including a portion of $16.9 billion spent in local economies by people visiting national lands.

The scripts come from the BadAss National Park.

If you are a hunter, you need to mention being a hunter in the call, if you want the hunting community to get credit, if that is important to you. I think their is value in each persons call being unique to them, but, at the end of the day, the call will be logged "Opposed to HR 621, the bill introduced by Jason Chaffetz, perhaps the biggest coward in DC."

 

[MTGomer]

The only thing I could maybe be convinced to support in any way shape or form whatsoever would be a no net loss land swap on those random land locked 1/4 sections that are acting as de facto tax-free private land to the surrounding land owners.

 

[Southern Elk]

I was unaware such a list existed until someone posted it on the Montana BCHA facebook page. I can tell you that I have been using some of the land on this list my whole life.

Whether or not the current bill is referring to these lists is the crux. I would like verification on that. But people who seem to be in the know imply these lists are what the bill refers to.

We don't have BLM land down here, but we do have a good bit of national forest land. It was always my understanding that there was a list or map that showed land that the USFS would trade. Basically it was outlying parcels that were hard to manage. They were usually traded for parcels that joined a larger block of national forest somewhere else. I know people who traded land years ago. I was curious if these "disposal lists" were "for trade" lists until now and this bill would authorize the sale?

 

[IlliniFIre]

Well I have once again emailed Rep. LaHood on this. Though I fear that I am finding my way onto the ignore list as I have not received any response on the last emails I have sent. Next I suppose that phone calls are up next. Don't suppose anyone has a script or anything like that to go off of. I tend to get passionate when I speak and having a script may keep me from being hung up on.

Well while I was emailing Jose provided the script. Thanks.

 

[1_pointer]

The only thing I could maybe be convinced to support in any way shape or form whatsoever would be a no net loss land swap on those random land locked 1/4 sections that are acting as de facto tax-free private land to the surrounding land owners.

Swaps I have a bit less heartburn over. I do know that in a past life that some BLM swaps that were not acre for acre equivalent were shot down at the onset of the idea. One was a trade of 80ac of BLM for a 1/2 section of private.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

I was unaware such a list existed until someone posted it on the Montana BCHA facebook page. I can tell you that I have been using some of the land on this list my whole life.

Whether or not the current bill is referring to these lists is the crux. I would like verification on that. But people who seem to be in the know imply these lists are what the bill refers to.

For example, the current Green River RMP has existed since 1997. Those land listed as suitable have been in that RMP since that time. I believe each RMP is different. I am not sure what instigates a change in RMP or how often it is revised. I know that sales/transfers or exchanges can and most likely did take place since its inception.

When I worked in CO, I attempted an exchange with BLM for some land listed as suitable for sale in their RMP. I wanted to trade a section of private ground we had ownership of for a partial section of BLM ground that was landlocked by private ground that we had ownership of. The piece of private se owned was surrounded by BLM land and we were seeing continued trespassing by hunters that started on the BLM land and eventually wondered into our private. The ground we wanted to trade for was BLM that was surrounded by private we owned. It was one section as I recall and had no access to other than possibly helo. I felt it was a fair trade and would provide better hunting opportunities for the public in Moffat Co, CO. and would eliminate a headache for the mine as a landowner. Ultimately the BLM declined under the explanation that it was not worth their time and effort. That is my only experience with land exchanges.

I completely understand the frustration you or anyone would have with the land on the list particularly if you have a history with that land. I am not trying to minimize that frustration.

It is interesting that at least some of these RMP's and associated saleable land lists have existed for decades and no one has come forward to buy/transfer or exchange yet. This Bill may want the land sold but that doesn't mean anyone wants to buy it.

 

[Big Fin]

If you need phone scripts to pass along to your non-hunting friends, these are good, and anyone can support them.

If you are FROM any of the Committee Member’s Districts:

I’m _____, a constituent of Congressman/woman ______. I am calling in regards to HR 621. The public lands in our district are incredibly important and the loss of these public lands would be devastating for our local and state economies. The Department of the Interior estimates that $16.9 billion is spent in local economies across the country from people visiting national lands and over $600 billion in benefits to the outdoor community. I urge Congressman/woman ____ to vote against HR621 to keep much needed revenue and jobs in our communities.



If you are from OUTSIDE the Committee Member’s Districts:

I am calling Congressman/woman ____ regarding HR621. I am concerned about the loss of public lands in the State of ____. (Optional: [My family and] I have visited _____ (location in state), we very much enjoyed the national lands that your state had to offer.) I urge your to vote against HR621 to ensure your communities and state continue to reap the many benefits, including a portion of $16.9 billion spent in local economies by people visiting national lands.

The scripts come from the BadAss National Park.

If you are a hunter, you need to mention being a hunter in the call, if you want the hunting community to get credit, if that is important to you. I think their is value in each persons call being unique to them, but, at the end of the day, the call will be logged "Opposed to HR 621, the bill introduced by Jason Chaffetz, perhaps the biggest coward in DC."

Damn, yesterday I got three requests to ban you from this forum. And look at you, giving some of the most helpful input of the month. Hopefully these people will retract their requests for your banishment.

Seriously, thanks for posting this. I think those of us who deal in this political activity as our daily efforts make some huge assumptions about the comfort level others have in doing it. I am guilty as hell when it comes to that. A post such as this, is immensely helpful and I thank you for providing it.