Screwing over the Non-resident (or not)?

[D_Walt]

This is why we can’t have nice things…30 pages ago there was talk about growing herds, etc. then 28 pages of pissing match.

Everything I read here on HT is that resident voters in the most represented state on HT keep voting for politicians who appoint game commissioners who are only interested in lowering deer and elk populations with unlimited doe tags and shoulder seasons for cows. That’s not on NR’s, that’s on your elected officials - and they weren’t elected by NR’s. Seems like a hell of a lot of that frustration gets channeled at NR’s.

Seems like an advocacy group could do well if they could figure out how to incorporate NR $’s into funding lobbying efforts on behalf of wildlife, and hunting. But, after reading this dumpster fire I’m sure it would just devolve into a R vs NR pissing match about thirty seconds after dollar number one was collected.

 

[Bigjay73]

We've officially run out of sensible posts. People are just making shit up now

 

[xgener]

Right, that's why 90-10 passed for moose, sheep, goat, bison, and eventually grizzlies.

You'll see 90-10 for the rest as well.

90 -10, if that is what people who live in wyoming want, then that is the way it should be. Wyoming residents choose to live there. They pay for the infrastructure through most of the state. They choose to live there. I live in Alaska and I have very little say in how kansas runs there hunting. If I choose to hunt their, I research there regulations and play by there rules. I do think if it goes 90-10 in wyoming, then nr should be allowed to hunt wilderness non guided. I am of the opinion that Alaska needs to triple their hunting licenses. Sheep are hurting, its only 650 for a nr tag, moose are only 800 a tag! Thats 650 lbs of processed meat, almost double an elk. I am putting in for a sheep tag this year in Idaho, $2600, not complaining (I am still treated like resident because I bought my lifetime licenses). Just a comparing non resident equal tags. And Its a hunt I would like to do(i aint rich)

I also have 9 points for antelope in wyoming. I want a specific place to hunt because of the country I want to enjoy. And I will play by there rules (yes it is a trophy area but an area I have always loved.) People who feel they are entitled will always bitch the loudest and cry the most.

I guarantee me and you are way different world views, but probably pretty close on hunting views. Everyone out there, I am hunting dall sheep, moose, billy goat and blacktail deer (70 dollars, I am resident of Alaska), and then hopefully antelope in wyoming, sheep in idaho, and if not I will hunt whitetail and elk in Idaho. And I didnt mean to specifically respond to to you. Most of what I said is probably jibberash. You seem to be popular here, sooo......

 

[Treeshark]

It’s easy to tell who is used to earning their results, and who ain’t.

Also easy to tell who is used to other people paying their way vs those who are used to handling their own.

Beware online heros. There are a lot of “conservation condors” out there these days, hovering high above and waiting to swoop down to take credit for things they really didn’t have that much to do with. One sure way to tell is they are usually the most vocal after something actually gets done.

I think this R vs NR thing has been about beat to death for now, at least for me. We all like to hunt, and some changes have been and are going to continue be uncomfortable (primarily for NR, which is as it should be). Is what it is.

 

[JohnBud]

Umm actually a lot of people.

Yes, indeed. The biggest buck that I have ever hunted (but did not kill) was in Lake County, Illinois.

 

[406dn]

Yeah in the short run that might get you a tag or two, in the long run…. It will just produce more and more tags for the open market unless. Residents decide they are going to start paying some trespass fees.

Elk hunting on private land ALREADY requires MONEY, in one form or another. It did when I showed up in Montana 40+ years ago.

The forest service land is not going anywhere. There are many constituencies that will go to the mat to keep them intact. So in states that have a decent amount of forest service land, they will continue to provide hunting. Your threats of their demise are empty.

There will be states that evolve to the Texas model, where it is nearly all pay to play. The western states with significant public land will be the only states to have big game hunting that does not include trespass fees.

You have given me an idea for Montana's non resident licensing going forward. Every non resident tag should be sold at auction. That provides a market price. Each license gets sold to a person who values it most.

 

[buckbull]

View attachment 318104

I beat you to the punch!

 

[Forkyfinder]

Also easy to tell who is used to other people paying their way vs those who are used to handling their own.

I guess i dont follow here? But if you want to compare bills to be in MT id love to. Almost 7 percent income tax and high property tax. A month of it makes the NR fee cute.

 

[Trial153]

I guess i dont follow here? But if you want to compare bills to be in MT id love to. Almost 7 percent income tax and high property tax. A month of it makes the NR fee cute.

I don’t know about that, Montana’s property taxes are down right cheap. Not WY cheap but none the less very reasonable. Agree on the income tax but that’s there are ways to mitigate that. There definitely are I worry about Montana but cutting a property tax check isn’t going to be one of them.

 

[more_cowbell]

That guy looks like he is wearing a dress shirt.

Poor guy probably had a massive heart attack while typing his next angry post

 

[Deleted member 52098]

As someone who has resident access in CO, but applies as a NR in other states, I just don’t get the NR bitching. EVERY YEAR there are leftover elk and deer tags across the west. Every. Year.

So I’m not quite sure what you’re bitching about, unless it’s that you don’t get high quality tags every year. Which even residents don’t even get that every year.

 

[BuzzH]

As someone who has resident access in CO, but applies as a NR in other states, I just don’t get the NR bitching. EVERY YEAR there are leftover elk and deer tags across the west. Every. Year.

So I’m not quite sure what you’re bitching about, unless it’s that you don’t get high quality tags every year. Which even residents don’t even get that every year.

The simple truth is there's just a lot of jealousy toward residents that make sacrifices and live in states with good hunting.

Lots of suckers thrown in the dirt, foot stamping, and breath holding because they think they're entitled to the same as a NR.

Guess they'll just have to get over it, or die with it...really don't care which.

 

[Mallardsx2]

 

[seeth07]

The simple truth is there's just a lot of jealousy toward residents that make sacrifices and live in states with good hunting.

Residents may be sick of hearing the whining from NR about tag allocations just as much as NR are sick of hearing this statement.

20 years ago I can't deny that the level of sacrifice was likely substantial to move to a western state. There was family, job/income, cost of living, amenities, public services, weather for some and probably some more less relevant ones. However, I don't think some of those apply anymore, at least not to the same degree. There is no doubt that the family sacrifice weighs heavy likely for most folks and it is the main driver preventing people from moving but with the other times now carrying less weight or irrelevant now, there is a faster migration of people heading to those western states where they can enjoy the beautiful scenery, remoteness, less urban areas and of course wildlife.

 

[BuzzH]

Residents may be sick of hearing the whining from NR about tag allocations just as much as NR are sick of hearing this statement.

20 years ago I can't deny that the level of sacrifice was likely substantial to move to a western state. There was family, job/income, cost of living, amenities, public services, weather for some and probably some more less relevant ones. However, I don't think some of those apply anymore, at least not to the same degree. There is no doubt that the family sacrifice weighs heavy likely for most folks and it is the main driver preventing people from moving but with the other times now carrying less weight or irrelevant now, there is a faster migration of people heading to those western states where they can enjoy the beautiful scenery, remoteness, less urban areas and of course wildlife.

Pitter-patter...

Also tired of all the tough talk about moving west. You going to pack the truck or flap the gums?

More foot stamping.

Oh, and let's not forget your buddy @rjthehunter says there's declining resident hunters in Wyoming...

When the NR Hunter migration to Wyoming starts, be sure to let me know. I need to get them up to speed on the benefits of 90-10.

 

[Hem]

Pitter-patter...

Also tired of all the tough talk about moving west. You going to pack the truck or flap the gums?

More foot stamping.

Oh, and let's not forget your buddy @rjthehunter says there's declining resident hunters in Wyoming...

When the NR Hunter migration to Wyoming starts, be sure to let me know. I need to get them up to speed on the benefits of 90-10.

Ha...remembering rolling in to Bozeman 38 years ago with a few hundred bucks and a road map.

 

[BuzzH]

Ha...remembering rolling in to Bozeman 38 years ago with a few hundred bucks and a road map.

That's how it's done ^^^^ for those that may be curious.

 

[Stifler]

I'm not all the way threw  this podcast.. but I'd encourage everyone to listen to it.. I've found some interesting things in it so far. and would be more concerned about how we all get organized and articulating better how we communicate what we think our wants and needs are. Let the science start running these agencies more, and figure at some point we will all have to come together for some fight down the line. Pissing on eachother really doesn't do any good. Even if 10 percent across the board like randy said with increased animals on the land, would increase tag allotments and increase nr tags in turn.

Maybe start taking initiative to fund politics for our states the way these what I'd consider groups against us do.. gotta play the same game... if we want to continue the NAM and show science based materials to keep our wildlife resources available for future trustee's.

This is a little different but it crosses over. We at some point will have to be able to sit down and have a good conversation and come together to fight some crazy things... so it's probably just best everyone take a minute calm down. Think about 20 30 years from now when someone's worried about a quality hunt they planned and then the humane society is fighting its in humane and not needed... those orgs never stop amd keep funding themselves like stated in this podcast and it's obvious to me we all need to be able to just take eachothers opinions and then nominate the smartest members like big fin oak and sexual chocolate im sure many more... but I can tell they are well educated and I havent been in long enough to tell everyone..get some different perspectives then decode and make prim and proper. But it's still something to consider if we want to enjoy it for long term... and your kids, kids, kids, children still can decide hey if I want to put in for some tags in WY or AZ they still can. If the "let the animal's manage themselves" keep popping up and we are as unorganized as we are now on this 1 topic. Then they will eventually win.

And it's silly because everyone wants the same to similar things
•more animals on the landscape
•more science based management less politics
•more funding for agencies
•More tags and I think thats maybe more I want more quality hunts but regardless that means more animals... etc. The list goes on we all agree on some base foundations of we want to hunt we are usually real nice in the woods to eachother... I have never had a super bad experience with someone yet atleast out hunting.... and we want future generations to enjoy hunting... so off topic ish on this nr v r but it really is something to keep in mind and kind of crosses over.

Gotta keep the ideas flowing. Money flowing. And the feelings kind of to a minimum when it comes to your veiws vs mine. I try and play different sides but the thred goes okay then bad then okay then bad but then it's all circled back. People gotta remember if they are here they probably have a open mind to hunting. And what that means to you probably crosses over to some point more or less but it's still shared so again ideas and then more ideas... or let it die... I really only had the 2 ideas to contribute wayyyyyyy back... but this I think is something to keep in mind.

 

[TOGIE]

Nothing is gonna change. Residents of western states are going to continue to want to have the majority of their, yes, their wildlife resources available to them. There will continue to be a small and ridiculously vocal minority that will bitch and moan and call us greedy bastards and threaten that their tiny vocal ranks will eventually take what's theirs from us. The usual fights against outfitter and landowner handouts, ballot initiatives, shitty commission appointments, bad legislation, and keeping the species alive will grind on with the usual players, as they always have. NRs can bow out of caring for western wildlife or not, but little will change and this is how it is destined to be until we're all dead.

So, let's put a bullet in this broken legged horse and move on.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

All of the western herds were a fraction of what they are today 100 years, many barely existed at all. Look at elk in CO in the late 1800s-1920s.

Obviously that population expanded and at some point we got the modern framework.

Any clue what the R/NR split was in the beginning, I mean obviously there was a point where Hunter pressure v. Number of animals were at a ratio similar to what they are now.

@Oak passed along some regs from back in the day and I found some myself that suggest that the current resident/non-resident price ratios are pretty similar.

Curious if they were 90/10 expanded as herds grew and now are contracting or if they started at 65/45 and if residents now are just jerks

Went back to find the CO data... but be curious if @BuzzH or @bigfin had anything like this for WY or MT.









(Draw Elk Permits)