Smith River Permit - Non-resident allocation

[theat]

HOLY SHIT MAN!

Ha, I wish! I meant the Smith in that second paragraph. Only done the MF once, but might be able to beg my way onto a trip this year.

 

[mountainlaurel3]

Saw people on a river forum expressing a desire for a preference point system for rivers (other than the grand). Don't do it!

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I do have mixed feelings about the new permit distribution between res/nonres. I am somewhat supportive of it though since I know tons of residents that have never been able to draw in over 20 years of applying. Also, all the management and maintenance is paid for by FWP not the forest service or BLM, so I think Montana residents should have first dibs on permits. From what I have read, over the previous several years about 40% of permits were going to non residents. If the forest service was the one managing this river/permit like other multi-day floats in the North West, I would not expect residents to get any preference.

The way things are going, expect a lot more activities and locations going to a permit system. Not just rivers. Just way too many people getting out there to not have a negative impact on the resource as well as a positive experience for the people recreating. I have heard rumors that the forest service is seriously considering adding over a dozen rivers in the north west to their permitting system. If the state parks in WY are getting overcrowded and it is having a negative impact on the park, I wouldn't be opposed to your state putting limits on out of staters visiting them.

I did the smith a few years ago, actually felt like they needed to cut the numbers back a lot, seemed really crowded.

Now that said the crowds *seemed like they were from the guided groups + locals that don’t need a permit.

I’m sure this isn’t accurate but it felt like folks with permits were only ~20-30% of the traffic.

I get it both ways with the allocation.

I won’t apply for the Smith again, YMMV but I think it’s wildly overrated.

 

[longbow51]

The only folks who can float the Smith without a permit are those who own land there; and then only from the put-in to their land. And that's only a few.

I was among them, but sold this spring; kids had no interest; they're lake people. I did my best.

There are some outfitter permits; don't know the details anymore.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

The only folks who can float the Smith without a permit are those who own land there; and then only from the put-in to their land. And that's only a few.

I was among them, but sold this spring; kids had no interest; they're lake people. I did my best.

If say there were 10 and over the course of the summer they floated 2x a month that’s 8 times so 80 floats.

So in terms of impact they equal a far larger number of use days. Making up numbers but you get the point… pile of guided trips as well.

Plus the houses, folks fishing from the bank etc doesn’t make it seem like much of a wilderness experience… lots of other rivers without permits where you see zero people over the course of the trip and where you absolutely aren’t getting yelled at by dorks in drift boats.

 

[theat]

I did the smith a few years ago, actually felt like they needed to cut the numbers back a lot, seemed really crowded.

Now that said the crowds *seemed like they were from the guided groups + locals that don’t need a permit.

I’m sure this isn’t accurate but it felt like folks with permits were only ~20-30% of the traffic.

I get it both ways with the allocation.

I won’t apply for the Smith again, YMMV but I think it’s wildly overrated.

I've had a couple peak season trips like that. Have also had a few peak season trips where we only saw a handful of people each day. Sometimes timing just sucks and you end up intermixing with a couple other groups all day on the water. Totally different experience each way.

I'm usually on it during the off season and I often don't see more than a couple people, if any the whole trip. Really have to want it though, as it can be a sufferfest with as much dragging as floating especially if you don't know the river well.

I agree that they should cut back on both private and outfitter trips. Definitely not a wilderness float like the permitted rivers in Idaho, but there is something about that little canyon that keeps bringing me back.

A friend called and was able to pick up a cancelation permit 2 summers ago in mid June. We had been planning to float a river on the front so everyone was already setup for a float trip. Turned out we were the only group that put on that day. Lots of cancelations for a few days due to some rain in the forecast. The river was high and murky so the fishing was poor. That may have also contributed to the cancelations. Saw other floaters on this trip, but not many. We came prepared and had a great time. Even caught a handful of fish each day.