School/Mass shootings what's the answer?

[BrentD]

From a purely practical standpoint most of the ideas by belshawelk would probably do the trick. I'd say retinal scans/facial recognition upon entry, non-lethal deterrents perhaps delivered remotely if the metal detector goes off, lethally armed guards at the final entries into the school, classroom doors that lock remotely from the inside and outside and doors to outside the building in every classroom. That's not really addressing the cause though.

It is also not fiscally plausible for schools that can't afford pencils. Small town schools, rural schools are even worse off yet. We cant afford that sort of security at airports which are quite flush with bucks.

someone posted that there are 36,000 high schools alone. Then add middle schools and junior highs and grade schools. Might as well throw in college and universities too. Building walls and fences around them, gating and stocking with all this high-end security just isn't feasible.

 

[Doublecluck]

It is also not fiscally plausible for schools that can't afford pencils. Small town schools, rural schools are even worse off yet. We cant afford that sort of security at airports which are quite flush with bucks.

someone posted that there are 36,000 high schools alone. Then add middle schools and junior highs and grade schools. Might as well throw in college and universities too. Building walls and fences around them, gating and stocking with all this high-end security just isn't feasible.

Fiscally plausible? Planned parenthood has over a half billion we could use...that would be a good start. Two birds with one stone.. save millions of children’s lives in the process.

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

Fiscally plausible? Planned parenthood has over a half billion we could use...that would be a good start. Two birds with one stone.. save millions of children’s lives in the process.

Unfortunately PP isn't going anywhere.

 

[Flynarrow]

There are a lot of ways to prioritize spending our tax dollars, safety of kids being one of the most important to most of us. However, despite spending more on the military than the next seven highest countries COMBINED, the current administration is asking to spend even more on military while cutting children health care, student aid, and school funding. And those in Congress likely dont have kids in school, and if they did, it would be in secure private schools. Talk and ideas here at HT are cheap, but those HTers who applauded the recent tax cut for the rich should not be coming up with unfunded ideas on how to put more resources into our schools.

 

[tjones]

Bump stocks and more background checks. Have to see if it amounts to anything.

A bit surprised by DJT.

 

[6mm Remington]

The Nosler forum is another forum that I frequent and like this one it seems to have a good bunch of folks who visit this site. One of the gentlemen who goes by the Handle of Dr. Mike wrote this on the shooting and I asked him if I could share his thoughts. I thought it was very well written and meaningful to read.


Without question, this is a tragic situation. It could have been much worse, except for a few fortuitous matters. The hurricane glass installed in the building appears to have stopped a number of additional deaths when the gunman couldn’t break the glass. Had that occurred, he would have been able to shoot many more people. He was prepared to do so, if the number of fully loaded magazines is any indication. JROTC members acted courageously to exercise control, directing students out of the danger zone and to shield others from rifle fire with Kevlar curtains. These young men need to be recognised for their courage and for their leadership.

One must feel compassion for grieving families and for wounded people who struggle to recover. What must be avoided is reacting solely from emotion and ignoring knowledge. Unfortunately, it appears that many students, having been trained in the art of following their emotions are prepared to jettison reason. Candidly, no one should surrender reason to teens, regardless of how traumatised they may have been. There is a reason why we withhold the privilege of voting until there is a presumed level of maturity. We presume (wrongly, perhaps, but presumptive nevertheless) that age does confer the ability to engage in sober reflection.

The answer is not to engage in kneejerk reaction such as banning guns and condemning the NRA. That is what we have come to expect from contemporary society. A bit of rational thought will remind us that Israel and Switzerland have high levels of firearm availability, and they don't have high numbers of mass shootings. The sole exception to this is the response of Israeli society to Palestinian efforts to inflict mass casualties, which have been greatly curtailed, in great measure because the attackers keep getting killed. China has incredibly strict gun laws, and there are mass stabbings that occur with somewhat amazing regularity. Either of these situations should challenge people to think. Access to firearms is not the sole issue to account for mass killings.

North American society has been trained for over a generation to respond to feelings rather than facts. The students that are demanding government to “do something” are making their demands from a position of fear, rather than from a position of knowledge. Three hundred thousand Americans are killed each year by abortion; but the same people demanding that guns be restricted “for the children” don’t seem especially concerned about demanding an end to the murder of the most vulnerable among us. For instance, Kamala Harris tweets that “our babies are being slaughtered,” though she received over $40,000 from pro-abortion rights groups in 2016. During 2016-2017, 24 children were killed in school shootings, including the Parkland shooting. That is 24 too many, but shouldn’t she be concerned for the over 300,000 babies killed by abortion each year? Over 900 deaths on an average day is mind boggling, but shouldn’t there be some concern about that?

The mass murders seem always to be perpetuated in “gun free zones,” but few of those excoriating the NRA consider that there are steps that could make it more probable that a shooter would be killed if he/she pulled a gun there.

We continue to be urged that if we “see something, say something.” In this case, brave people did speak up, just as they did in other cases—and nothing happened. The father of convicted Chelsea bomber Ahmad Khan Rahimi informed the FBI of his concerns. Nothing was done and 31 people were wounded. The FBI was warned of the Tsarnaev brothers; but nothing was done and the Boston Marathon bombing took place. A school shooting in New Mexico left two students dead—after an FBI investigation had cleared the shooter! And Nikolas Cruz had multiple red flags presented to the FBI and the Florida DCF; but nothing was done. Clearly, taking these matters seriously would go a long way toward addressing the problems.

I cannot neglect the issue that a major problem in modern life is a cultural transition. We had guns when I was a teen. We took them to school and nobody would think of using them to injure another. Every pickup had a gun rack in the back window—and there were guns on those racks. Guns didn’t change, but society did change. Parents began to imagine that buying “things” was more important than being with children, so both parents went to work. Children needed their mom and dad, but instead they came home to an empty house filled with “things.” We told women that they could be both mothers AND fathers. So, we raised a generation without dads in the home. Just as juvenile bull elephants that don’t have adult bulls to keep them in line become rogue, so we raised a generation with an exaggerated number of rogue children that suffer from an alphabet soup of problems that never existed in earlier generations.

In an earlier day, if I misbehaved (and I did misbehave) before I could even get home, my dad would know of my misadventures. The neighbours would never permit a child to run wild. Today, those same neighbours will be told to keep their opinions to themselves. I was warned, and the warnings had some validity attached, that if I was punished at school, then I could anticipate punishment when I got home. Today, we don’t dare even speak harshly to the precious snowflakes, or their otherwise absent parents will sue the socks off us.

We don’t want to offend adherents of some religions, so we are silent concerning their rantings. However, we feel perfectly free to censure such nationally destructive acts as prayer or reading the Good Book. We once stood for the national anthem and knelt for prayer; that has changed today. Could it be that such societal transformation is in part responsible for what we are observing among our youth? Seems that I recall a censure that charged a nation with sowing the wind and reaping the whirlwind.

I understand that I’m a dinosaur, and I was a nervous child. However, my dad was even more nervous and he was an expert in the use of an elm switch. He didn’t hesitate to administer the board of education to the seat of knowledge, and I learned that he meant to turn out a son that would honour him rather than one that would disgrace him.

I’ve rambled on, I’m well aware. I have to speak to a congregation each week and the messages are broadcast. It is fascinating to witness the feedback. I’ve been threatened by station managers that I speak too plainly, even as they privately admit they appreciate what is said. If someone is offended by what I’ve written, know that I’ve been to a few rodeos, and I’ve likely heard your particular complaint. I’ll simply say to you what I have heard so often when those whom I represent (white, male, Anglo-Saxon, Christians) are told to simply turn off what may offend us, you can simply block my posts. Believe me, I will understand. However, you need to understand that the blowback from this incident in Florida will not quickly dissipate. We will witness a tremendous push to ban “assault rifles” (whatever they are) and to restrict gun rights. Tragically, that blowback will come all the way to the great white north.

_________________
γηράσκω δ᾽ αἰεὶ πολλὰ διδασκόμενος.

 

[VAspeedgoat]

Great piece, thanks for posting that. Invite him to join this forum.

 

[VikingsGuy]

A bit surprised by DJT.

DJT is all about DJT, he threatened to run as a Dem, then ran GOP. He has no party, he has no ideology, he just has ego, so no one should assume they know what side of any given issue he will be on.

 

[tjones]

DJT is all about DJT, he threatened to run as a Dem, then ran GOP. He has no party, he has no ideology, he just has ego, so no one should assume they know what side of any given issue he will be on.

My point being heads would have exploded if Obama had done the exact same thing.

 

[VikingsGuy]

My point being heads would have exploded if Obama had done the exact same thing.

Ahhh, did not make that connection in my read.

 

[MTGomer]

applauded the recent tax cut for EVERYBODY should not be coming up with unfunded ideas on how to put more resources into our schools.

I fixed a typo for Flynarrow above.


I saw a piece written yesterday about how resources are spent with regards to keeping kids safe. It focused on how much we spend to prevent kids from dying in fire at school. Everything from the sprinkler system, to the materials the building is made out of, extra doors for air control, training, time spent practicing fire drills, fire fighting infrastructure, the list goes on. We spend all this, yet kids arent dying in school fires. Either the investment is working, or its not really that big of a threat. Maybe a bit of both. Nobody says we're paranoid for spending this, yet that's the argument against doing much of anything to keep kids safe from psychos.

There are always ways to fund important things. We could cut from needless spending in other areas that we overspend. Like the military budget, which is insane. The childtax credit could pay for it. Probably not a popular idea, but not a bad one either.

 

[3855WIN]

Real simple. Give the principal in every school a real big paddle and use it often. When these well disciplined kids get to high school, they will respect their elders. Kids who respect don't shoot up their school.

 

[VikingsGuy]

One of the challenges with some of this commentary is that many countries with much less gun violence have much lower church participation rates, lower rates of two parent homes, higher rates of women in the work-force, no paddles in the schools, no armed teachers, less spending on mental health, etc. What is it about us that leads to such a different outcome? I suspect, but of course will never know, that we seemed to have sacrificed empathy and sense of community at the alter of unlimited individuality. Individual rights are obviously essential - but like all good things, taken to an extreme there are significant negative consequences.

 

[rmauch20]

I fixed a typo for Flynarrow above.


I saw a piece written yesterday about how resources are spent with regards to keeping kids safe. It focused on how much we spend to prevent kids from dying in fire at school. Everything from the sprinkler system, to the materials the building is made out of, extra doors for air control, training, time spent practicing fire drills, fire fighting infrastructure, the list goes on. We spend all this, yet kids arent dying in school fires. Either the investment is working, or its not really that big of a threat. Maybe a bit of both. Nobody says we're paranoid for spending this, yet that's the argument against doing much of anything to keep kids safe from psychos.

There are always ways to fund important things. We could cut from needless spending in other areas that we overspend. Like the military budget, which is insane. The childtax credit could pay for it. Probably not a popular idea, but not a bad one either.

I think the last time we lost a student fire in United States was around 1958. But we still do fire drills four times a year. We are practicing for something that does not happen. Same goes for tornado drills, we have lost some students in storms but it a small amount (30ish in the last 40 years) compared Active shooter situations. You try to get to school to do an active threat or active shooter drill and you will meet resistance from top to bottom.

As far as funding for increased security at schools and a police officer for every school, If you put the burden on the school district alone, things will not get done just because most school districts don’t have the financial resources to pay a police officer or the improvements needed. But considering the US spends around $50 billion a year and for an foreign aid if we could cut that number in half at least I don’t think funding would be as much of an issue.

Allowing teachers to carrying in school, if they choose to carry I think they should be allowed to do so as long as they can meet the following criteria. First they should be able to pass the same qualification course daughter please department uses, in my state at least this is a state standardized course. Attend at least eight hours of defense tactics weapon retention every year. Which is about eight more hours then what police officers are required to attend.Obviously background check would be included in this.

 

[airlocksniffer]

One of the challenges with some of this commentary is that many countries with much less gun violence have much lower church participation rates, lower rates of two parent homes, higher rates of women in the work-force, no paddles in the schools, no armed teachers, less spending on mental health, etc. What is it about us that leads to such a different outcome? I suspect, but of course will never know, that we seemed to have sacrificed empathy and sense of community at the alter of unlimited individuality. Individual rights are obviously essential - but like all good things, taken to an extreme there are significant negative consequences.

People who advocate for more religion in our society always seem to conveniently ignore this. Teach your kids to have greater empathy. Whether it’s via religion or not it can only help.

 

[VikingsGuy]

People who advocate for more religion in our society always seem to conveniently ignore this. Teach your kids to have greater empathy. Whether it’s via religion or not it can only help.

I do believe that strong faith is a huge plus for any individual, it makes a huge difference in my life - but I am not convinced it can be legislated or that if legislated would fix this problem. And as you note, there are other ways to be empathetic other than through faith.

 

[BrentD]

People who advocate for more religion in our society always seem to conveniently ignore this. Teach your kids to have greater empathy. Whether it’s via religion or not it can only help.

Empathy and tolerance for other perspectives. We have almost none of either today.

 

[Nameless Range]

Somewhat of a tangent, but after a few days of seeing my “leftish” friends and “rightish” friends post their varying viewpoints on social media, I am a bit flabbergasted at the ability of people to bend the facts to suit their agendas. Some I expected, some I didn’t.

Multiple people I know, a couple of which are active duty military, claim this shooting to have been a false flag designed to control the masses, and that no kids were killed. What we are seeing on TV are crisis actors. It’s strange to see.

 

[Lawnboy]

Multiple people I know, a couple of which are active duty military, claim this shooting to have been a false flag designed to control the masses, and that no kids were killed. What we are seeing on TV are crisis actors. It’s strange to see.

This kind of crap is nonsense and about as big of insult one could give to those who lost loved ones. America has it's fair share of idiots who believe anything. I'd love to grab them by their hair and shove their faces in the caskets and say "actors huh"? Makes me furious

 

[Nameless Range]

This kind of crap is nonsense and about as big of insult one could give to those who lost loved ones. America has it's fair share of idiots who believe anything. I'd love to grab them by their hair and shove their faces in the caskets and say "actors huh"? Makes me furious

I agree