Reduced Hunting #'s Nationally Threaten State Conservation $.

[Ben Lamb]

This nation has been urbanizing since the industrial revolution. That's 140 years of folks leaving the farm life for the city skyline. What we've lost is access to places that used to be close to cities & towns as people have spread out into those once verdant fields. We're losing habitat in metropolitan areas at a fast rate, and we're not replacing the lost access with access close to urban centers.

Urban fisheries can help create new anglers, but how do you mirror that success with hunting? We're long past the idea that you can drive out for an afternoon hunt if you live in a town. Now it's a weekend ordeal, and you're going to be crowded on public.

Or you can leverage your finances & lease a place, ensuring you get yours, but nobody else does.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Urban fisheries can help create new anglers, but how do you mirror that success with hunting? We're long past the idea that you can drive out for an afternoon hunt if you live in a town. Now it's a weekend ordeal, and you're going to be crowded on public.

This is exactly what BHA and CPW in Colorado are missing, we have millions of acres of weekend warrior hunting opportunity. We don't need a few more large wildlife areas, with busy parking lots. We need a 1000 small areas, close to the city, that you can go fish or hunt for small game for an afternoon. We need to disperse hunters not congregate them in one area.

I don't care about the massive SWA's I care about the 2000 or more single 640 sections within 90min of the metro area that have no public access.

 

[Ben Lamb]

YOu need both the large expanses for wildlife propagation & the smaller portions close to town. But honestly, it's easier to sell people on the big win versus the slow, methodical pace needed to establish better urban hunting grounds.

 

[1_pointer]

Make Small Game Hunting Great Again.

If you got squirrels, you got hunting. Take kids and newbs squirrel hunting so they can have fun and dip a toe killing and eating something many consider a pest. Don't make them sit in the cold bored to death hoping to kill a beautiful majestic deer. At least....not the first time.

While I agree to a large extent with this, deer hunting has made finding places to small game hunt hard here. Nearly ever place has someone that deer hunts it and they don't want it "messed" up. The good news is that is it easier to show a newby a squirrel on public land than a deer!

 

[thusby]

I don't feel like tracking down links right now but I think the SSF did a study that showed 1-day events, like kids fishing days, don't actually recruit hunters or anglers. You need mentorship. And post school kids/young adults are in the best place in life to try new things, accept mentoring, then start doing it on their own.

I don't think the hunting industry is actually doing anything to recruit new hunters, the only thing they're doing is convincing existing hunters to hunt more.

This nails it. You have to spend years teaching someone to shoot, shoot in the field, basic woodsmanship, scouting, planning, field dressing, butchering and cooking before you made a lifelong hunter. Without at least some success, most will throw in the towel too.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Man if only there were some kind of gov't program that could be used to purchase more public lands, closer to urban centers, that has the express purpose of conserving wildlife habitat.

 

[MNElkNut]

I disagree with the notion that one day events are not valuable in recruiting. Does taking someone on multiple outings result in a higher recruitment rate? Why sure, but it is extremely difficult to get the numbers needed in order to have a statistically significant result. Having multiple mentor hunts with 15 kids is a feel good exercise, but it doesn't move the needle on a statewide level. And how do you get kids interested in going down a particular path (ie mentor hunt) without going through an introductory and trial stage?

I think one successful path is to have an introductory and trial one day event put on by many groups representing many outdoor activities. That gets kids interested for more. Then, leverage these groups to follow that up with additional events to have multiple touch points with the kid. I think you combine these things together to get the most impact. One additional problem with jumping right into a mentor hunt type of activity is that you often find the kids that partake in that hunt are already hooked. The kids with little or no opportunity don't jump right into a mentor hunt. In most cases, they don't even know about them.

 

[Sytes]

In my mind there is no point in teaching other peoples kids to hunt, kids have no agency of their own (money, transportation, the legal ability to hunt without an adult, own a gun), so while you might be giving someone a life experience that will cause them to be a pro-hunting voter in the future, the likelihood that you will be creating a hunter is almost zero.

No. I disagree. The boys I look are late 20's, early 30's now. All hunt. If I'd only been involved with one and it was a one off hunt, maybe? I would even question that.
Inspiration is the heart of a youth's future.

 

[BigHornRam]

I disagree with the notion that one day events are not valuable in recruiting. Does taking someone on multiple outings result in a higher recruitment rate? Why sure, but it is extremely difficult to get the numbers needed in order to have a statistically significant result. Having multiple mentor hunts with 15 kids is a feel good exercise, but it doesn't move the needle on a statewide level. And how do you get kids interested in going down a particular path (ie mentor hunt) without going through an introductory and trial stage?

I think one successful path is to have an introductory and trial one day event put on by many groups representing many outdoor activities. That gets kids interested for more. Then, leverage these groups to follow that up with additional events to have multiple touch points with the kid. I think you combine these things together to get the most impact. One additional problem with jumping right into a mentor hunt type of activity is that you often find the kids that partake in that hunt are already hooked. The kids with little or no opportunity don't jump right into a mentor hunt. In most cases, they don't even know about them.

Agree!

Youth Conservation & Education Expo camp counselors honored - Bitterroot Star

Volunteer organizations from all over the valley are gearing up once again for the annual Youth Conservation and Education Expo at the Teller Refuge near Corvallis. It’s a free event […]

bitterrootstar.com

 

[Dougfirtree]

Surprisingly well written for the Washington Post. Not suprising with the changes in the last 70 years. There has been a shift in people living in rural areas who are closely associated with their food sources and environment to a urban area where they are completely removed from the natural environment and food sources they are dependent on. Hunting and fishing was just something you did growing up on a farm not do much in the middle of a city.
Compound that with the ever continuous loss of access to hunting areas through leasing, development, etc. and it's not surprising to see a down turn. We have done ourselves no favors either outdoor media has been dominated by trophy hunting backslapping bubba's and has only recently seen progress in how we represent ourselves through the work of men like Randy Newberg, Steven Rinella, Remi Warren, and so forth.

I don't think hunting is "dying" we just need to adapt and take more ownership on how we represent ourselves.

This. There are two strategies to protecting the right to hunt: Either work to increase numbers (a losing strategy most likely), or just improve the way we're seen by the populace at large (probably more realistic). For the record, I think we should be working on both, but we need to start caring more about our image. It will likely make the difference in the long-term.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

No. I disagree. The boys I look are late 20's, early 30's now. All hunt. If I'd only been involved with one and it was a one off hunt, maybe? I would even question that.
Inspiration is the heart of a youth's future.

In my mind I was thinking of someone in say DC or Atlanta taking their neighbors kids out to hunt their private land. Cool experience but ultimately useless unless there is a lifetime open invitation.

Western states it's a bit different as access is so easy.

 

[Trial153]

tis tis....It’s easy to get in to the game. Go lease some ground on the on the outskirts of town. If it’s already leased up get into bidding war for it. Shell out 5 grand a year to shoot a couple does. Thats the plan for up and coming hunters

 

[Deleted member 39961]

I don't feel like tracking down links right now but I think the SSF did a study that showed 1-day events, like kids fishing days, don't actually recruit hunters or anglers. You need mentorship. And post school kids/young adults are in the best place in life to try new things, accept mentoring, then start doing it on their own.

You need mentorship, but you don't need introduction? Gotta prime the pump.

No. I disagree. The boys I look are late 20's, early 30's now. All hunt. If I'd only been involved with one and it was a one off hunt, maybe? I would even question that.
Inspiration is the heart of a youth's future.

This.

 

[Ben Lamb]

In my mind I was thinking of someone in say DC or Atlanta taking their neighbors kids out to hunt their private land. Cool experience but ultimately useless unless there is a lifetime open invitation.

Western states it's a bit different as access is so easy.

I would about 1/2 disagree with that. Yes, access is much easier in the west than in the east, but it's also getting much harder in the west as well. Denver is a prime example, as is Bozeman, Boise, Wasatch Front, etc. I also think that the issue could be compounded in western states due to lower population numbers, meaning that as more and more people leave rural areas, we not only lose people who would hunt at every opportunity, we lose places that find value in being open for the common hunter.

 

[beginnerhunter]

While I agree to a large extent with this, deer hunting has made finding places to small game hunt hard here. Nearly ever place has someone that deer hunts it and they don't want it "messed" up. The good news is that is it easier to show a newby a squirrel on public land than a deer!

Well I was talking primarily about public land. I've given up on the idea of gaining access to private ground that isn't mine or belongs to a good friend/family.

 

[SaskHunter]

tis tis....It’s easy to get in to the game. Go lease some ground on the on the outskirts of town. If it’s already leased up get into bidding war for it. Shell out 5 grand a year to shoot a couple does. Thats the plan for up and coming hunters

There has been a huge decline in hunting/fishing in my home province of Quebec. Between 2014 and 2018, the number of fishing licenses sold yearly dropped by just shy of 120,000, that's the difference between 2014 and 2018, not a four year total loss. For hunting, the Province was in the whole for about $850,000 this year as they hit an historical low. There was a drastic reduction in whitetail and bear tags sold. This may seem like a low number, but at 60 to 100$ a resident big game tag, that's a lot of tags that went unpurchased for a province of less than 8.5 million most of whom don't hunt. The government even went against the trend and reduced the price of some tags/licenses and numbers still went down. The newly created gun registry in the province obviously didn't help but the trend is there, every year less and less Quebecers buy big game tags and fishing licenses. Before moving to the greener pastures of Saskatchewan, the landowner where I turkey hunted wanted to charge us a few thousand dollars for turkey hunting all the while cursing the turkeys on his property for ruining his fields and costing him thousands of dollars in damage. We actually laughed when he expressed that he wanted to start charging us and we said we'd go elsewhere. He let us hunt his property but cut our access in half since we actually killed lots of turkeys and rented the other half for five grand to a group of five hunters who got two toms that year... The lack of public land in the province and landowners greed is costing the province and sport a lot. I respect landowners rights but when they bitch and complain about wild animals destroying their fields but won't let hunters hunt their land I have no sympathy. My father in law often talks about the access he had in the past, a thousand acres here, 600 there, 1200 here, etc. Landowners used to welcome hunters and let them on their land for nothing but the monetization of the sport is slowly killing it.

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

Most of us on this site are fortunate enough to be able to hunt ourselves but for those that can't for whatever reason and rely on a guide I see how they are getting pushed out. Prices are becoming ridiculous, I was just chatting this morning to a mate about how in the last 10 years I've seen Alaskan prices skyrocket. That's just an example, Aus is no different. 30 years ago you could pretty much hunt buffalo here for free or a minimal cost at most but due mostly (and no offense to anyone here) to rich american hunters throwing around more and more money the prices have gone crazy. To the point where most aussies cant afford it, guides are now even advertising australian hunts even to aussies in USD. the problem is that although it's great for the guides and the wealthy clients we aren't getting enough shot because people can't afford it so we're in a position like we are now where guides are charging $10k USD for one bull while the government is simultaneously trying to cull out 20,000 animals.

I get that in certain instances higher prices are required for various reasons but when hunting becomes simply about money it bodes ill for all hunters in the long term. You're simply going to whittle down the people bothering. And we have the issue like you of hunting organisations complaining about the number of people involved these days.

For me that's why I'm looking at doing an international hunt next year, I can hunt big game overseas far cheaper than I can in my own country.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Most of us on this site are fortunate enough to be able to hunt ourselves but for those that can't for whatever reason and rely on a guide I see how they are getting pushed out. Prices are becoming ridiculous, I was just chatting this morning to a mate about how in the last 10 years I've seen Alaskan prices skyrocket. That's just an example, Aus is no different. 30 years ago you could pretty much hunt buffalo here for free or a minimal cost at most but due mostly (and no offense to anyone here) to rich american hunters throwing around more and more money the prices have gone crazy. To the point where most aussies cant afford it, guides are now even advertising australian hunts even to aussies in USD. the problem is that although it's great for the guides and the wealthy clients we aren't getting enough shot because people can't afford it so we're in a position like we are now where guides are charging $10k USD for one bull while the government is simultaneously trying to cull out 20,000 animals.

Yep... it's weird... sometimes it's the perception that people are missing out on value if they let people hunt, rather than actually making money.

-Hunter "Can I hunt your property?"

-Landowner "$2500"

-Hunter "Hmmm, that's more than I can afford, just out of curiosity how many people hunt your place"

"Oh I haven't been able to get many hunters on, no interest"

-Hunter "Just curious, how did you decide on $2500?"

-Landowner "Because that's what my neighbor Jerry is charging"


.... same landowner to CPW


"YOU GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE ELK, THEY ARE EATING ME OUT OF HOUSE AND HOME"

 

[Sytes]

Correlation?

Nearly half of Americans didn’t go outside to recreate in 2018. That has the outdoor industry worried.

For the glass-half-full crowd that makes up the outdoor industry, the results of the latest outdoor participation survey are sobering. Outdoor businesses need people to get outside, but almost half of Americans don’t venture outdoors to play. The steady decline in participation threatens not...

coloradosun.com

 

[Aussie_hunter_JD]

Yep... it's weird... sometimes it's the perception that people are missing out on value if they let people hunt, rather than actually making money.

-Hunter "Can I hunt your property?"

-Landowner "$2500"

-Hunter "Hmmm, that's more than I can afford, just out of curiosity how many people hunt your place"

"Oh I haven't been able to get many hunters on, no interest"

-Hunter "Just curious, how did you decide on $2500?"

-Landowner "Because that's what my neighbor Jerry is charging"


.... same landowner to CPW


"YOU GOT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THESE ELK, THEY ARE EATING ME OUT OF HOUSE AND HOME"

I chuckled at that, we have had a very similar thing in the news recently. Farmers who don't allow access on their property to anyone complaining to the government and then the media about the government not paying for deer fences and paying for eradication programs. Many of these places border national parks where recreational hunters can't hunt them coming off the public.

Again a contentious issue where I live, around 95% of the public land where deer reside isn't open to hunting. The government complained about the number of deer in there (which was a political copout) and have since spent a few hundred thousand dollars of tax payer money to do aerial culls which is simply killing as many as you can and leaving them to rot. If I set foot in there to hunt one for meat I'd lose my guns, my car and have a few thousand dollar fine.