NG Article - Alaska Bear/Wolf Hunting

[44hunter45]

For me the article read like," Blah Blah Blah, CASCADE THEORY, Blah Blah Blah."

I'm not a trained scientist, but I love to find and read papers that apply to any aspects of the NA Model. The upshot is, sometimes they make me look hard at my thinking.

There is newer science that strongly rebuts the ideas of Trophic Cascade. If need be, I can go find chapter and verse. A 2012 study from USFS RMRS and UM Missoula about wolves and lynx comes to mind.
The authors conclude that the citation of Trophic Cascade theory in the social and print media, particularly with regard to predators, is general mis-used. They charge that it in fact is detrimental to real science on the ground.

It was my understanding, albeit second hand, that the practices discussed in the article were never allowed to non-native hunters. If that is true, that makes this a question of indigenous rights more than a directly conservation issue. That is something of which the SCOTUS has recently shown themselves to be very supportive.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

I was just wondering how many Federal lands have a restriction on the way to hunt or fish that basically overrules what a state would allow in the lower 48.

If on a state waterfowl area they don't have anything that says you can't use lead shotgun shells for bunny hunting and then there is this one federal area in the state like you mentioned that does, that would be a prime example. I personally was just having a hard time finding where its as wacky in the 48 on federal lands as it was in Alaska.

I think Alaska will have the largest discrepancies, more fed intrusion in the system there than anywhere else.

Nothing comes to mind but I bet there are some predator hunting discrepancies in the lower 48.

 

[Panda Bear]

I don't have a ton of experience there either, however, I did spend some time in Shishmaref hunting muskox a number of years ago.

One of the cool things about doing hunts like that is getting to spend time with the native culture there, eye-opening to say the least and a good way to get a first hand look at things like you're discussing.

With such short days, you have lots of time to talk with the native people that live there and of course, being hunters, doesn't take long to start talking hunting. The guy we hunted with, Clifford, had a son, John, just a little younger than me and we talked about hunting a lot. He took out some photo albums and started showing me pictures of their hunting, much different than anything to do with how we hunt. There was one series of pictures of a walrus hunt they did, they essentially float up to them while they're lounging on a piece of ice and let them have it. In the pictures, there was a group of 5 walrus on a piece of ice, I asked which one they would pick out to shoot. John asked me what do you mean which one would we pick out? I said, well, which one would shoot, biggest, closest, what? He just bluntly said, "shoot them all". Pretty much went that way with most of their hunting, near as I could tell. The caribou there were about the spookiest animal I've ever seen in my life and that's because I believe every chance to kill one is taken.

Point is, I don't believe in a true subsistence situation, like that in Shishmaref, there is much worry about "conservation"...in fact I would argue the definition they would use, is not even close to what I would use for that word.

I think what it boils down to is that there are so few people up there actually subsistence hunting, that its convenient to use words like conservation when describing (falsely I believe) to what they're doing because it doesn't impact the resource enough. Secondly, in situations like that, I don't really care how, when or where they go about killing what they feel they need to live. Finally, I don't believe the natives there give 2 chits what the State, Feds, or anyone else tells them regarding how, what, where, or when they hunt for subsistence. Also fair is that the resources are abundant enough, that even what we would view as far from conservation minded hunting, just doesn't make enough difference to really have an impact on wildlife (there are a few exceptions, but I don't want to get in the weeds).

Long way of saying, this whole discussion and "problem" between the fed/state jurisdiction on what is allowed and not allowed, regarding the native's subsistence hunting seems like a big fat non-starter to me. The way these cultures have hunted for a long time probably never have followed the regulations of the State or the Feds and likely never will. Surely they have never aligned with what we perceive as ethical, conservation minded sport hunting. But, make no mistake, what we do share is the spirit of hunting and that we're both hunters...just from a much different frame of reference.

I was asked my opinion of the thread topic and the above post is an excellent response to the OP--- IMHO

I have zero knowledge or information about Alaska

However up this way, as long as we stay on traditional territory and hunt the same animals we have traditionally hunted we have no conflict with the Govt. However we dont waste any of the animals, using far more of each animals than hunters to the south of us do, even if they are hunting for meat. This is a very broad statement and I am sure there are some who do use basically all the animal for food, clothing, tools, etc. We also are very strict regulators among ourselves, especially if we feel there is a species, at risk.

Last winter B.C. decided to go to war against the Wolf, in an effort to save the Woodland Caribou. We felt that the wolf was not and is not the problem. We feel that deforestation and mining has destroyed the feeding grounds of the Woodland Caribou, not the Wolf.

As an aside, B.C. also recently banned Grizzly hunting so as to "save them ". We also disagreed with that as well.

Many times all one needs to do is follow the money and wherever the big bucks are coming from is the "agenda" that is being pushed by the Government. There is a constant drum beat to ban hunting and firearms and sometimes they ( Govt ) will attempt to slip in the back door in an effort to reach their ultimate goal.