Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Yes it is being blown out of proportion...I hope that rancher doesn't expect any favors from the BLM(or any govt. agency) anytime soon. 
Rancher: Wolf agent 'trespassed'
- Thread starter feclnogn
- Start date
Ten Bears
New member
Are you implying that he should now expect to be treated with less customer service then others?
Filing criminal charges is not a lawsuit.
Filing criminal charges is not a lawsuit.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
That's right! If the rancher can't treat his neighbors with respect, why should they go out of their way to do anything for him?
Tuffbucker
New member
Okay........Ive sat back and read the posts here and have fought back the urge to respond and tell some people how big of dumb shits they are being.....but I can resist no longer.
1st off: This is not a case of trespassing. Saying that this USFW officer was trespassing is like saying I trespass everytime I step on some schrote bags property to arrest him. I dont have his permission to be on his property, but in the act of doing my duty as a law enforcment officer, I have "LEGAL RIGHT TO REMAIN", and complete the duties of my job. THat is exactly what the USFW officer was doing. He has been commissioned by the federal govt to complete a certain duty/job. If he has to go on someones private property to do so, well thats just too bad, thats just the way the cookie crumbles. He is not trespassing, he is not breaking any laws. Sometimes the laws dont neccessarily apply to law enforcement/govt officials IN THE COURSE OF THIER DUTIES. At work I have to speed sometimes, make illegal u-turns, etc.....but am I breaking the law?? NO.... The law allows certain "exceptions" to sworn officals.....such as the USFW officer in question.
I think any lawsuit brought up this crybaby rancher, would be laughed out of court in a heartbeat. One of the guys I work with had some drug user file a million dollar law suit against him for coming on his property to arrest him, and guess what the court said...after the judge finished laughing, he said exactly what I said above...the law has certain "exceptions" for law enforcement/govt officials in the commision of their duties. Sounds to me like the USFW officer was doing just that. He was in the commission of his duties, and ended up on some private land. What he did was not illegal....and in my opinion it wasnt wrong. He wasnt there with the intent to harm the rancher or his land....he was just doing his job.......
So to all you whiners who think this govt official was breaking the law.....give it up. This crybaby rancher is just looking to make another quick buck off the govt. His lawsuit would be frivilous and without merit. And to me, he sounds like a giant jackass!!
1st off: This is not a case of trespassing. Saying that this USFW officer was trespassing is like saying I trespass everytime I step on some schrote bags property to arrest him. I dont have his permission to be on his property, but in the act of doing my duty as a law enforcment officer, I have "LEGAL RIGHT TO REMAIN", and complete the duties of my job. THat is exactly what the USFW officer was doing. He has been commissioned by the federal govt to complete a certain duty/job. If he has to go on someones private property to do so, well thats just too bad, thats just the way the cookie crumbles. He is not trespassing, he is not breaking any laws. Sometimes the laws dont neccessarily apply to law enforcement/govt officials IN THE COURSE OF THIER DUTIES. At work I have to speed sometimes, make illegal u-turns, etc.....but am I breaking the law?? NO.... The law allows certain "exceptions" to sworn officals.....such as the USFW officer in question.
I think any lawsuit brought up this crybaby rancher, would be laughed out of court in a heartbeat. One of the guys I work with had some drug user file a million dollar law suit against him for coming on his property to arrest him, and guess what the court said...after the judge finished laughing, he said exactly what I said above...the law has certain "exceptions" for law enforcement/govt officials in the commision of their duties. Sounds to me like the USFW officer was doing just that. He was in the commission of his duties, and ended up on some private land. What he did was not illegal....and in my opinion it wasnt wrong. He wasnt there with the intent to harm the rancher or his land....he was just doing his job.......
So to all you whiners who think this govt official was breaking the law.....give it up. This crybaby rancher is just looking to make another quick buck off the govt. His lawsuit would be frivilous and without merit. And to me, he sounds like a giant jackass!!
Ten Bears
New member
TBucker, you may have a case if the wolves were darted on that same ranch. However, as the wolves were "collected" and transported to that location, the rancher may very well have a case of unlawful entry. Without the full map of the area, and locations neither YOU nor I can do anything but speculate.
WH, because to treat him any differently could be grounds for other legal action.
WH, because to treat him any differently could be grounds for other legal action.
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
Ten Bears, they still don't have to go out of their way to do him any favors. You can be sure that they won't.
Tuffbucker, you are right on.
Tuffbucker, you are right on.
JoseCuervo
New member
I think it is funny that Ten Beers is now challenging Tuff's knowledge of the law....
Ten, just when I think I have read the most ridiculous statements by you, you seem to be able to top yourself....
Ten, just when I think I have read the most ridiculous statements by you, you seem to be able to top yourself....
Calif. Hunter
Active member
I have to say that any government offical or law enforcement officer does not have an unrestricted right to enter upon private property any time they want. "Unreasonable search and seizure," remember?
"Hot pursuit" or probable cause, yes. Those are determined, if need be, by the court. The rancher is exercising his legal rights. He may be a jerk, but that is his right, too.
"Hot pursuit" or probable cause, yes. Those are determined, if need be, by the court. The rancher is exercising his legal rights. He may be a jerk, but that is his right, too.
Ten Bears
New member
Washington Hunter
Well-known member
So the question is, did the gov't employees remain on the property after being notified to leave? I kind of doubt it.
Ten Bears
New member
I would say if you entered private land without permission, you should know you shouldn't be there. The big question is, is it posted? fenced????? The agent said he knew they were flying into an ownership, he just didn't know which one. "Just put us down near those cows over there"
"These wolves will probably be hungry when they wake up" 
Bambistew
Well-known member
Panel accuses USFWS of planting wolves on private ranch land: Park County seeks probe
By ALLISON BATDORFF
Gazette Wyoming Bureau
CODY, Wyo. - An "outraged" Park County Board of Commissioners has demanded a congressional investigation into questions about the presence of U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service agents on the Larsen Ranch in Meeteetse last month.
The letter, signed by the three commissioners, asks the state's congressional delegation to conduct a formal inquiry into an incident Feb. 14 when a ranch worker found a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service agent and his assistant working on four tranquilized wolves on the property.
"We are outraged and demand accountability of the actions taken by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service surrounding the incident," the letter stated.
The letter states that federal officials were planting wolves on the land without the landowner's knowledge and calls "the introduction of a dangerous wild predator onto private land historically used for calving" a "grievous" act.
"My trust level with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is not very high right now," said Commission Chairman Tim Morrison. "We don't really know what happened down there, but we want answers and we want accountability."
The commissioners' request was sent to Sen. Mike Enzi's office. Enzi received it Thursday and is considering the matter carefully, according to press secretary Coy Knobel.
"The allegation of planting wolves is serious and if it's true, it's outrageous," Knobel said.
Claims that federal agents were planting wolves on private land drew a laugh from Ed Bangs, FWS wolf recovery coordinator based in Helena. He said this was the first time he has run into a situation like this in his 15 years of service, during which the agency has collared 550 wolves.
But he said he would not comment directly on the incident investigation, only that "it was a legal matter that has been turned over to the law-enforcement division."
Michael Jimenez, the FWS wolf expert involved in the incident, also said he could not comment.
"Once it goes to law enforcement, we can't talk about it," Jimenez said.
Larsen Ranch employee and stockgrower Randy Kruger was driving down LU Ranch Road, west of Highway 120, when he came upon Jimenez, his assistant Wes Livingston and the four wolves. According to Kruger, Jimenez told him that he and Livingston had chased the wolves in a helicopter from Dubois in an attempt to collar the four animals. After they picked up the wolves, the helicopter pilot dropped off the group while he went to refuel. They did not know they were on private land, Jimenez told Kruger.
Kruger has since filed a criminal trespass complaint with the Park County Attorney's Office and the Wyoming Division of Criminal Investigation is currently looking into the allegations at the request of Park County Attorney Bryan Skoric. The DCI will interview witnesses, review documents, and conduct mapping studies to determine if a trespass occurred.
"The DCI report will tell me where we go from here," Skoric said. "I want to have all the facts in front of me before I charge anyone."
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/03/05/build/wyoming/20-wolf-plant.inc
By ALLISON BATDORFF
Gazette Wyoming Bureau
CODY, Wyo. - An "outraged" Park County Board of Commissioners has demanded a congressional investigation into questions about the presence of U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service agents on the Larsen Ranch in Meeteetse last month.
The letter, signed by the three commissioners, asks the state's congressional delegation to conduct a formal inquiry into an incident Feb. 14 when a ranch worker found a U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service agent and his assistant working on four tranquilized wolves on the property.
"We are outraged and demand accountability of the actions taken by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service surrounding the incident," the letter stated.
The letter states that federal officials were planting wolves on the land without the landowner's knowledge and calls "the introduction of a dangerous wild predator onto private land historically used for calving" a "grievous" act.
"My trust level with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is not very high right now," said Commission Chairman Tim Morrison. "We don't really know what happened down there, but we want answers and we want accountability."
The commissioners' request was sent to Sen. Mike Enzi's office. Enzi received it Thursday and is considering the matter carefully, according to press secretary Coy Knobel.
"The allegation of planting wolves is serious and if it's true, it's outrageous," Knobel said.
Claims that federal agents were planting wolves on private land drew a laugh from Ed Bangs, FWS wolf recovery coordinator based in Helena. He said this was the first time he has run into a situation like this in his 15 years of service, during which the agency has collared 550 wolves.
But he said he would not comment directly on the incident investigation, only that "it was a legal matter that has been turned over to the law-enforcement division."
Michael Jimenez, the FWS wolf expert involved in the incident, also said he could not comment.
"Once it goes to law enforcement, we can't talk about it," Jimenez said.
Larsen Ranch employee and stockgrower Randy Kruger was driving down LU Ranch Road, west of Highway 120, when he came upon Jimenez, his assistant Wes Livingston and the four wolves. According to Kruger, Jimenez told him that he and Livingston had chased the wolves in a helicopter from Dubois in an attempt to collar the four animals. After they picked up the wolves, the helicopter pilot dropped off the group while he went to refuel. They did not know they were on private land, Jimenez told Kruger.
Kruger has since filed a criminal trespass complaint with the Park County Attorney's Office and the Wyoming Division of Criminal Investigation is currently looking into the allegations at the request of Park County Attorney Bryan Skoric. The DCI will interview witnesses, review documents, and conduct mapping studies to determine if a trespass occurred.
"The DCI report will tell me where we go from here," Skoric said. "I want to have all the facts in front of me before I charge anyone."
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2004/03/05/build/wyoming/20-wolf-plant.inc
Ten Bears
New member
Hey, freind of mine sent me this link. It comes from Benewah County.
http://www.smgazette.com/news/news3.php
Maybe he should have asked first?????
http://www.smgazette.com/news/news3.php
Seems you can't just go where ever you want, even for work.
Maybe he should have asked first?????BuzzH
Well-known member
I agree, they should have asked.
Its funny a landowner would be pissed about this though, something designed to help save their homes: "The maps are used by area fire departments including the Idaho Department of Lands in fire fighting efforts."
If I was in charge, I'd be equally as cordial when it comes time to save her house, "well, we wanted to save her place, but we didnt have permission, so....."
Its pathetic that people have to be such pains in the ass...
Its funny a landowner would be pissed about this though, something designed to help save their homes: "The maps are used by area fire departments including the Idaho Department of Lands in fire fighting efforts."
If I was in charge, I'd be equally as cordial when it comes time to save her house, "well, we wanted to save her place, but we didnt have permission, so....."
Its pathetic that people have to be such pains in the ass...
JoseCuervo
New member
Buzz, I agree, but it just seems to be Ten Bears' nature....
P
pawclaws
Guest
Elkgunner certainly doesn't have to worry about being a pain in the ass. That would be defined pretty much as a hemorhoid wouldn't it? As everyone knows; a perfect asshole wouldn't, couldn't have a hemorhoid!
As everyone knows; a perfect asshole wouldn't, couldn't have a hemorhoid!
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