Quiet Waters Act Proposed by The Back country Hunters and Anglers

[Topgun 30-06]

I hope you're about done with your thread because it has only downhill from your first post. You obviously have a closed mind and also lack knowledge on the subject after reading your poor comment about bank erosion and what can or can't speed it up!

 

[fowl_minded]

I hope you're about done with your thread because it has only downhill from your first post. You obviously have a closed mind and also lack knowledge on the subject after reading your poor comment about bank erosion and what can or can't speed it up!

Never done I've already admitted the first post sucked and a few afterwards, but bank erosion are you kidding me, I simply asked for some info that would legitimately prove that. Hell, everyone asked me to post the facts and I did, you guys must fail to read what I read in it. I lined it all out pretty good on the last page. Which still no one has any response besides stream bank erosion which I find hard to believe and a couple one liners. Seriously though because of the changes rivers make every single year. Whether its ice jams, flooding, bank riprap placed wrong, dead fall, you name it. Tell me how someone can actually measure erosion caused by jet boats or other motorized watercraft.

 

[fowl_minded]

Read This

I said punctual person

You guys want to talk about misinformation why don't you guys re-read the petition

Paragraphs like this one that are right out of the petition:

10. With regard to the requirements of 2-4-111, MCA, the department has
determined that the amendment and adoption of the above-referenced rules will not
significantly and directly impact small businesses.

I would love to actually see the list of so called small businesses they contacted to figure this one out. it was funny when this was brought up at the Billings meeting the response from the people representing BHA was and I quote "we didn't have to ask anyone we just know and that's the way it is."

Or this
Perhaps the most visible disturbance is to nesting or resting eagles, herons and osprey. While
humans can often pass underneath quietly in a non-motorized vessel, the often loud, fast
moving craft often displace such birds. A large wake from a noisy craft can also displace
waterfowl, and can scatter broods of young waterfowl. The adverse effects are, of course,
magnified with increasing frequent use levels.

How can they make this assumption, DU states that waterfowl and nesting pairs are through the roof and have been on a huge incline for the past few years. I hunt birds all the time and weather I go up or down the birds jump and they sit right back down weather a floater comes through or a jet they jump. Every time I go to the river there are eagles, hawks, osprey, Blue heron all over the place. They don't even blink when I drive by. There is more freakin nests in the trees then you could shake a stick at. But motorized boats are disturbing the habitat? Total BS

And this
The power and speed restrictions recommended in this document largely address this hazard.
Given the limited mobility of non-motorized users and the limited maneuverability of watercraft
travelling at higher speeds the implicit dangers high-performance watercraft pose to other users
on many of Montana’s streams and rivers are both immediate and apparent. Similarly, the very
same characteristics that have historically limited this irresponsible behavior present a
corresponding hazard to watercraft and users who may collide with debris, submerged boulders,
or other parts of the stream.

I can run my setup just fine. I can stop it, turn on a dime, run skinny water all just fine. There is nothing dangerous about it, as long as the operator is confident and responsible and watches out for him or herself as well as others. There shouldn't ever be any "dangerous situations"

The comments made that operating jets on rolling rivers like the Snake vs. flatter rivers like the Missouri it disrupts the fish more GMAFB, if I disrupt the fish so much how come I can catch them right after I pull up into a fishing hole or how come I catch then when I troll the rivers? Hell I just went over them with my motor engaged and my crankbait isn't even 50 yards out behind me. But, I'm disrupting them? Or maybe I can just catch fish, who knows?

The comments of jet boats being a major cause in bank erosion and making waves harder to navigate. Come on

There's talk by you guys of these Power Surf Boards and newer motorized technology being a concern well guess what some of them fall into the 10hp or less category so how is that gonna fix anything?

This is a division of sportsman whether you seem to see it or not, its one special interest group of sportsman proposing something to take away some form of recreation away from a different group of sportsman, which causes conflict.

Maybe the BHA should also consider this since they want to limit the amounts of pressure and conflict in certain areas caused by motorized boat users. They should consider limiting the amounts of Guides and Outfitters on these "majestic" trout fisheries. I'm sure this would go over really well. Seriously though you wanna talk about getting piss pounded and an overcrowding problem. Google imagine the Upper Missouri or the Upper Stone or The Upper 3 on the Big Horn and tell me that that isn't over pressured and disruptive, count all the boats its unreal. But, we all know that something like this never going to happen. Because the same guy thats name is all over this petition Mr. Dan Vermillion just happens to also be part of the bullshit commission appointed by none other then Mr. Steve Bullock. And we wouldn't want to effect his small business now would we. The same small business that includes a guide school program that get this......TEACHES THEIR STUDENTS HOW TO RUN JET BOATS. Now i may not be a smart man but I do know what a hypocrite is and its stamped right on his forehead! Thats the fearless leader of the deal, double dipping so he can squeak a little more cash into his back pocket!

How ya like them apples?

Am i lining my facts out for you guys good enough now?

I even learned how to use paragraphs through all of this.
I don't have any real compromises for this besides throw it out.

Anyone have an argument to this besides the erosion deal which I can't seem to wrap my head around?

 

[1_pointer]

A few minutes of searching on the internet can yield multiple sources and citations of peer reviewed literature that investigated/measured motorboat induced erosion. Just takes a bit of gumption to find, but not quite as much as is required for making a ham sandwich.

 

[Frenchy]

I appreciate your input James and I see what you are saying. I guess with that in the big picture I am close minded because it's not right. Taking something away from sportsman in today's day and age is wrong. We got enough shit going on in the world and to be taking away someone's escape from it all isn't right. Especially when another group of sportsman with special interest is doing it to another group of sportsman, just my opinion. I just fail to see how any of the overcrowded situations and environmental issues caused by motorized watercraft is the real issue of this whole deal. When really people both floating or running a boat are out there to do what they love and are their hopefully in respect of one another and cherish what we got. I know I am its not my goal to go out and be on the rivers only to ruin it for someone else. I steer clear of drift boats, rafts waders....you name it. I'm out there for a good time and I just don't see any benefit of something like this.

There you go. That's the message you need to start these conversations with. Nicely said.

 

[fowl_minded]

Nothing more to say


https://www.greendecoys.com/decoys/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/

 

[JLS]

Nothing more to say


https://www.greendecoys.com/decoys/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/

If you're going to fall for this bullshit, then you're right. There is nothing more to say.

EDIT: Maybe the Green Decoys page can tie in Benghazi, buying off judges, and the outfitter mafia into their smear campaign.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Nothing more to say


https://www.greendecoys.com/decoys/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/

I hope so because after clicking that link with all their BS I would imagine you have completely lost all of us on this thread by beginning and ending with pure BS!
Edit: I see JLS beat me by 2 minutes while I was typing my response, LOL!

 

[Straight Arrow]

I steer clear of drift boats, rafts waders....you name it

posted by fowl_minded


Not bashful about my bias ... but if you are anywhere near me, loudly dashing around on your jet-ski I will be highly perturbed, more likely angry.

 

[mtmiller]

Nothing more to say


https://www.greendecoys.com/decoys/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/

This speaks volumes to how uninformed you are. That being said, I really hope you have "nothing more to say".

 

[Frenchy]

posted by fowl_minded


Not bashful about my bias ... but if you are anywhere near me, loudly dashing around on your jet-ski I will be highly perturbed, more likely angry.

If this were only about Jet-skis, i doubt there would be much of an opposition. But this isn't just about jet-skis.

 

[Straight Arrow]

But this isn't just about jet-skis.

Frenchy, duly acknowledged, but my comment reflects the angst that ramps up when the larger power boats, skis, kayaks, or whatever intrudes in places heretofore which have been more serene.

My assertion is that motorized vehicles and other contraptions do not need to be in every space and place. And for full disclosure, I use motorized vehicles and other contraptions on land and water.

 

[Frenchy]

I can agree to that Straight Arrow. Motorized contraptions do not need to be in every space and place. But I disagree with the Quiet Waters Initiative with regards to some of the the waters that it specifically identifies as places warranting restrictions.

This is a proposal that goes to far to solve a problem that doesn't yet exist.

 

[Frenchy]

Just food for thought. Does anyone know how many miles of rivers / streams there are in Montana that do not allow motorized use vs. the miles of streams and rivers that do allow it?

This isn't a question that I know the answer to, but one that i would speculate drastically favors the non-motorized use crowd.

 

[Straight Arrow]

...with regards to some of the the waters that it specifically identifies as places warranting restrictions.

I think the hearing and public comment process is a good vehicle to sort that all out ... for the best interests of folks and fish (so to speak). Unfortunately, there are so many folks who seemingly are unwilling to compromise. I encourage you to submit your perspective on where those places are which warrant the restrictions and where those places are that likely will not have conflicts in the near future. That is a positive way to approach the issue.

 

[Frenchy]

I have submitted comments that were more that just a blanket I support/don't support type of comment. Some stretches of river i have no experience with. So i tailored my comments to the portions that I am have first hand experience and knowledge with.

I can relate to the non-motorized crowd, but i also do not feel that the jet boat community is all that large. I don't personally see where all the angst comes from. I've asked all of my fly fishing / drift boat buddies how many times they have been interrupted by motorized users. Most can only recall one or two times that they have even encountered a motorized user. I myself cannot recall a single time outside of waterfowl season where I have encountered a motorized craft on one of these waters.

So I have to ask. Why the need for regulation.

 

[tinesup406]

Frenchy, duly acknowledged, but my comment reflects the angst that ramps up when the larger power boats, skis, kayaks, or whatever intrudes in places heretofore which have been more serene.

My assertion is that motorized vehicles and other contraptions do not need to be in every space and place. And for full disclosure, I use motorized vehicles and other contraptions on land and water.

What? Can you explain that last sentence you don't want them in every place and yet you operate them on land and water? Second are you threatening motorboat operators? If they invade your personal bubble on the water?

 

[Welder247]

The quiet waters proposal is a guide/outfitter sponsored initiative. It limits public use of waterways to a certain group. There is no compromise in this initiative, it only speaks of removing one group of sportsman. I hear no limits on drift boaters,rafters etc. This is aimed at powerboats, expressly jet boats. The jet boat community already compromised on the upper Yellowstone in the early 80's which was a mistake because here we are again. I have read this forum and continually hear compromise, unfortunately at one group of sportsman's expense. This is only a stepping stone towards more limitations and more restrictions from a group that does not limit itself. I have spent time on the water recreating with rafters and drift boaters and all of us enjoyed the day as sportsman should. Everyone shows common courtesy towards one another. The angst that I have seen derives from a different group aimed at monetary gain at the average sportsman's expense.

 

[tinesup406]

Very nicely put welder, the only problem is I think there may be too many "closed minds" here, too see the motorized side. Hopefully this stirs the hornets nest because I can't wait to see how this unfolds. I'll give it to Fowl, he may of started a little rough but, he stood up for what he believed in.

 

[BuzzH]

Very nicely put welder, the only problem is I think there may be too many "closed minds" here, too see the motorized side. Hopefully this stirs the hornets nest because I can't wait to see how this unfolds. I'll give it to Fowl, he may of started a little rough but, he stood up for what he believed in.

Its funny the selective reading that goes on...

Wayyy back on page one:

If I still lived in Montana, I would probably be asking all river users to start collaborating and discussing the issue of jet boats and other motor powered water craft, as well as looking at the issues of crowding, appropriate levels of use, seasonal closures, perhaps certain days of the week for certain uses, etc. etc.