Private beef out of our public land.

[BigHornRam]

A colorful video to say the least.
Out of curiosity, How much coin does it take to "buy out" a grazing allotment? I assume it would depend on the size and how badly the current owner wants out?

It's been awhile and I'm getting old but I believe this buyout was agreed to for $135,000. All of the money was provided by a number of NGO's, including one I am involved with. A number of allotments were bought out years ago in Wyoming for much less.

Saying you want sheep grazing on all public lands ended is just empty rhetoric. Working to identify and retire key leases is possible if more people would get involved.

 

[BuzzH]

I could live with more bison, elk, deer, moose, sheep, pronghorn, and goats on public land...and if that means reducing the number of domestic livestock on that public land, I could live with that too.

 

[PrairieHunter]

A colorful video to say the least.
Out of curiosity, How much coin does it take to "buy out" a grazing allotment? I assume it would depend on the size and how badly the current owner wants out?

1.35 per AUM.

https://beef.unl.edu/aum-calculations
A: An AUM is an Animal Unit Month. An animal unit month is a method used to give an estimate of how much forage is being eaten by a defined animal in a month. In range and pasture management related to beef production, an AUM is often defined as the approximate amount of forage that a 1,000 cow with a calf that is less than three months of age will eat in a month. This number based on research is estimated at 26 pounds of air-dried forage per day or 780 pounds per month. Air-dried forage is assumed to be 10% moisture and 90% dry matter.

On range and pasture land, forage production that is available to be consumed by a grazing animal is often given in terms of AUM per acre. In continuous season long grazing usually only 25% of total forage production is estimated to be available for grazing. For example, Sandhills rangeland can vary widely in the amount of forage available that can sustainably be consumed. If a range site is rated in fair to good condition and at this condition is assessed as having 0.4 AUM of forage that can be grazed per acre that means on the average for this range site it would take 2.5 acres per month to feed a 1,000 pound cow.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I could live with more bison, elk, deer, moose, sheep, pronghorn, and goats on public land...and if that means reducing the number of domestic livestock on that public land, I could live with that too.

You nailed it Buzz, that's how I feel about it as well.

 

[Northwoods Labs]

I don't get the whole "cows over condos" thing because we are talking about public land here. Are you stating that if we get rid of public land grazing then that public land will be developed? Or are you stating that if it were not for public land grazing then ranching in many Western states would not be economically viable, thus forcing ranchers to sell the land they owned? If the answer to the second question is yes, then I think that is quite revealing on the state of ranching in many western states. Don't want to sound harsh, but are we basically subsidizing the ability of folks in a lot of western states to play cowboy? I'm pretty sure the elimination of the cattle industry in Montana would hardly cause a blip on the radar of the overall beef industry.

I have no dog in this fight but I guess I would hardly be supportive of public land grazing, and I am surely not going to be sympathetic to their cause

 

[Elkmagnet]

Looks like another crowded Idaho elkhole to me.

To bad I didn't have him bugling on video.

 

[TLowell02]

I don't get the whole "cows over condos" thing because we are talking about public land here. Are you stating that if we get rid of public land grazing then that public land will be developed? Or are you stating that if it were not for public land grazing then ranching in many Western states would not be economically viable, thus forcing ranchers to sell the land they owned? If the answer to the second question is yes, then I think that is quite revealing on the state of ranching in many western states. Don't want to sound harsh, but are we basically subsidizing the ability of folks in a lot of western states to play cowboy? I'm pretty sure the elimination of the cattle industry in Montana would hardly cause a blip on the radar of the overall beef industry.

I have no dog in this fight but I guess I would hardly be supportive of public land grazing, and I am surely not going to be sympathetic to their cause

I think you would be surprised how many Texas ranches own or lease grazing lands in Montana, Wyoming, etc. Many of those ranches rely on northern summer range for certain livestock classes as well as emergency grazing during times of extreme drought, e.g. now.

 

[Handlebar]

I don't get the whole "cows over condos" thing because we are talking about public land here. Are you stating that if we get rid of public land grazing then that public land will be developed? Or are you stating that if it were not for public land grazing then ranching in many Western states would not be economically viable, thus forcing ranchers to sell the land they owned? If the answer to the second question is yes, then I think that is quite revealing on the state of ranching in many western states. Don't want to sound harsh, but are we basically subsidizing the ability of folks in a lot of western states to play cowboy? .

Yes many ranchers would sell the "deeded " lands that they own. These lands in the arid west are generally speaking the most productive and provide crucial habitat not only for big game but a multitude of species. Many people doubt the cows vs. condo argument but there was a study done by Dr. Richard Knight (I hope I have his name right) that explored the losses to wildlife with the conversion from agriculture to subdivisions. If you really want to see the effects take a trip down Hwy 287 from Laramie to Ft. Collins. The change from the early 90's to now is dramatic.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Back in the '80s, Fred King, now retired Montana FWP Wildlife Area manager and prominent Boone & Crockett Club trophy scorer, put together a dramatic slide show presentation which illustrated the dynamic decreases to wildlife habitat in Montana due to the subdivisions and other development of lands previously used for farming or ranching. Fred was way ahead of the time in showing and predicting the significant habitat losses. I'm pretty sure he does not relish saying, "I told you so."
I believe that is why it is ever-growing in importance to protect and preserve wildlife habitat ... as well as to support those opportunities to enhance and increase habitat.

Proper use of the good grazing practices and other healthy practices on the public lands can contribute to preservation of viable, critical wildlife habitat.

 

[vanish]

http://www.beef2live.com/story-top-10-states-cattle-0-110713

 

[2ski]

Back in the '80s, Fred King, now retired Montana FWP Wildlife Area manager and prominent Boone & Crockett Club trophy scorer, put together a dramatic slide show presentation which illustrated the dynamic decreases to wildlife habitat in Montana due to the subdivisions and other development of lands previously used for farming or ranching. Fred was way ahead of the time in showing and predicting the significant habitat losses. I'm pretty sure he does not relish saying, "I told you so."
I believe that is why it is ever-growing in importance to protect and preserve wildlife habitat ... as well as to support those opportunities to enhance and increase habitat.

Proper use of the good grazing practices and other healthy practices on the public lands can contribute to preservation of viable, critical wildlife habitat.

An aside, Fred is an awesome guy. He teaches Hunter's ed. in Bozeman. Love listening to him talk.

 

[TheTone]

http://www.beef2live.com/story-top-10-states-cattle-0-110713

Seems that a lot of beef is coming off private...

 

[BigHornRam]

In the mountain areas, the main ranch is in the valleys on deeded ground where irrigated hay fields grow the feed to get the cows through winter. The summer pastures are higher up on leased forest service ground. Take away the summer leases and the ranch will no longer be viable and will either be sub-divided or sold to a wealthy hobby rancher.

On the prairies, the good soiled grounds with water were homesteaded. To poor ground is BLM today. Good for growing a little grass, sage, and cactus. Again, take away the blm grazing leases and the ranches will no longer be viable and be at risk for sub-division.

I prefer to keep the viable ranches undeveloped, but that's an increasingly difficult proposition.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Fred is an awesome guy. He teaches Hunter's ed. in Bozeman. Love listening to him talk.

Indeed he is! Fred is one of those unsung heroes of Montana hunting, fishing, and wildlife management.

 

[BigHornRam]

Here is one key ranch property that is no longer a working ranch and would be a shame to see developed. Would be a big task to pull it off but would definitely be worth conserving. RMEF is doing their best to try to make it happen. They could use some help though.

https://www.bozemandailychronicle.c...cle_979411fc-2d4a-5c9c-9503-ea351ebd0361.html

 

[Straight Arrow]

Yes indeed a worthy conservation acquisition for RMEF. Recall that in 1989 the historic OTO Ranch up Cedar Creek, now in the Dome Mountain Wildlife Management Area, was one of the first key elk habitat acquisitions by RMEF.
Let's all get behind this effort and add the Dome Mountain Ranch as important habitat ... and public land.

 

[utahminer]

I could live with more bison, elk, deer, moose, sheep, pronghorn, and goats on public land...and if that means reducing the number of domestic livestock on that public land, I could live with that too.

Buzz, remind me do you own cattle or a lease (this is an honest question and I am not trying to pick a fight)?

If the answer to the second question is yes, then I think that is quite revealing on the state of ranching in many western states. Don't want to sound harsh, but are we basically subsidizing the ability of folks in a lot of western states to play cowboy? I'm pretty sure the elimination of the cattle industry in Montana would hardly cause a blip on the radar of the overall beef industry.

I have no dog in this fight but I guess I would hardly be supportive of public land grazing, and I am surely not going to be sympathetic to their cause

I find Northwoods statement a little interesting, because I think we run the risk of being supporting of public land use as long as its "our type" of use. Couldn't the same statement above be revised to say "we are basically subsidizing the ability of folks in a lot the western state to play hunter? Believe me, I get annoyed when I find range land that has been left like moon scape from sheep grazing and trash from cattlemen trying to create a new water source that didnt work, but isnt that part of it being a land of many uses? Also, do we run the risk of fractioning our support of keeping public lands public and ultimatly cur off our nose to spite our face if we take such a hard stance against cattle grazing or many other activities?

 

[BigHornRam]

Yes indeed a worthy conservation acquisition for RMEF. Recall that in 1989 the historic OTO Ranch up Cedar Creek, now in the Dome Mountain Wildlife Management Area, was one of the first key elk habitat acquisitions by RMEF.
Let's all get behind this effort and add the Dome Mountain Ranch as important habitat ... and public land.

The state is trying to purchase it. RMEF and others are trying to help facilitate the purchase. I got a tour of the property a couple summers ago when they were applying for some forest legacy funding. Unfortunately it was a poor proposal and didn't get any funding. The state of Montana really doesn't have 25 million available to purchase this land. Maybe interested hunters and fisherman can step up put together the dollars to make it happen? That would be ideal in my opinion. So lets get to work and get it done!

 

[BigHornRam]

Here you go. 3 1/2 minute interweb tour of the Dome Mountain Ranch. Worth 25 million? Watch and decide for yourself.

https://youtu.be/M6_Y6tef0CU

Unfortunately this is a common situation popular western areas are finding ourselves in, in today's world. Conserve properties like this or lose them. Your choice.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, remind me do you own cattle or a lease (this is an honest question and I am not trying to pick a fight)?

No and no.

I'm not opposed to grazing public lands if done correctly and responsibly.